Yes you are correct on most if not all points... Other than your fuel in the truck doesn't count against you in payload. The trouble is people want trucks to ride like cars and to do that you need soft suspension.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

As I mentioned in another post, you are doing the numbers and that is awesome. Many people do not. Because you are doing the numbers you know where the weak areas are and you are aware enough to be cautious. People with this level of awareness of what is going on rarely have a problem. Now if you are just looking for justification for the wife to by a new truck keep the numbers going and keep adding to your list of things you must have and things will only get heaver and the wife will say you need a 3/4 or 1 ton. Boom you have your wish.

From a previous conversation it sounds like you like to leave your truck basically factory stock. Would I tow the way my truck came from the factory? Absolutely not and that is the way it received it's weight ratings. My 2010 Crew Max came with P (for passenger car) rated tires. The P rated tires are rated to the max weight limit of the vehicle for short distances (I can not remember the exact distance, I think it is under 120 miles). Do I need E -rated tires? NO. But I run them. I look at it as an insurance policy. I do trailer and I go out Chucker hunting as I am going to guess you might based on your location. Every time you go out in the high deserts in the fall/winter you are risking your life on what you are driving and how well you have it prepared. Tear out a sidewall 100 miles into no ware and 20 degree temps in the day time. I run E -rated tires and adjust the air pressure as needed for comfort or load.

Does changing things on the truck allow it to haul more and have a heaver gross. Absolutely not. Does changing things on the truck change the way it handles the load absolutely yes. The E -rated tires weigh about 25 lbs per tire more than what was stock. Heavier tire means that the suspension struts and shocks are trying to control the heavier weight of the tires that they are not designed to. So different struts and shocks are also needed. Adding a rear sway bar helps to stiffen up the rear of the truck and transfers weight back to the opposite side stabilizing the ride.

Over load springs or air bags enhance the vehicles ability to handle a heavy load but it does not change the weight capacity but it does change the way the vehicle handles the load. Adding springs is a permanent ride change. It might be great while towing that heavy trailer but it will suck when the load is removed. That is why I chose air bags with the on board compressor. The ride is 100% stock unless I want to add air by pushing a button when I have a load. This allows the best of both worlds. It also aids in hooking up a trailer. I can move the back of the truck up about 1.5 in. to aid in making a connection.

I am not smart enough to out smart the engineers at Toyota. So I try to stick with parts that are engineer as a package by Toyota. There are tons of after market parts designed to fit our trucks but few are designed to work in unison with all the other aspects of the vehicle. So I try to stick with Toyota products when it comes to things that have affects on the entire vehicle, TRD sway bar, TRD designed Magnussion supercharger, TRD Borla exhaust, Bilstein struts and shocks and so on.

Toyota is known for over engineering and under rating. The 5.7 rated at 381 hp and 401 tq was also available as a dealer option with warranty to be supercharged to 505 hp and 550 tq. Toyota knows that motor can handle more even in real world abuse situations that is why it was available with factory warranty. The Tundra rear ends and front differentials you never hear these talked about. The front ring gear (9 in.) is the same size as a Dana 60 found in 3/4 and light one ton trucks. The Tundra rear ring gear is a 10.5 in. closer to the size found in a Dana 66 found in 1 ton dullies. The Tundra just does not have the floating axles that are better for heavy weight like the Danas'.

I live in truck country. There are more trucks on the roads than anything else as I would assume is the same in your area. There are more 3/4 tons than half tons. I have heard the question and statements many times like you ask. "trucks aren't truck unless they are 3/4 tons." So are 1/2 tons worthless. To some people the answer is yes. Most of those people either know they frequently (weekly) are hauling loads that require a 3/4 ton. Or the other 3/4 ton drivers that have not figured out how to do the math that you have done. And then there are those that live in apartments have nothing to haul and just think they are cool and that is all OK. So are 1/2 tons worth less, absolutely not. There are those of us that have a everyday driver that needs to be our everything vehicle. The hunting rig, the family hauler, towing the ski boat to the lake. My boat and trailer is 5000 lbs. and I can not even tell it is behind me. When I haul the Airstream 7800 loaded I know it is back there but the truck feels totally solid including fire wood and dogs. Because of the enhancements I have done to improve towing I am comfortable towing at the max limits. I would not do what I do the way the truck was delivered even though it is rated too.

You definitely do not need the supercharger that I recently add for towing, the Tundra is strong enough. You just need to not be afraid of more RPMs than you would be running with a push rod motor. This is a 4 valve per cylinder duel over head cam variable valve timing motor. That means it likes more RPMs although the Tundras torque curve due to the variable valve timing is very consistent and flat. It has torque constantly above 1800 RPM nice and flat like a diesel except it will rev to 5800 and with the supercharger 6000 in all gears including first gear which is limiter to 4800 rpm in stock trim.

Prior to the recent (last 2 mo,) up grades I made to the Tundra I shopped for a 3/4 ton diesel. With the options I wanted all were $75,000 +. They do not ride as well on a daily basis. Although the 3/4 ton Ram with air bag suspension did ride nice for a 3/4 ton and it has a Cummins but it is in a Dodge/ Fiat. Could I get a Cummins in a Toyota, Amen. The Ford and GMs accelerate amazingly and will blow a stock Tundra off the road.
Yes there is a place for half tons.

 

As I mentioned in another post, you are doing the numbers and that is awesome. Many people do not. Because you are doing the numbers you know where the weak areas are and you are aware enough to be cautious. People with this level of awareness of what is going on rarely have a problem. Now if you are just looking for justification for the wife to by a new truck keep the numbers going and keep adding to your list of things you must have and things will only get heaver and the wife will say you need a 3/4 or 1 ton. Boom you have your wish.

From a previous conversation it sounds like you like to leave your truck basically factory stock. Would I tow the way my truck came from the factory? Absolutely not and that is the way it received it's weight ratings. My 2010 Crew Max came with P (for passenger car) rated tires. The P rated tires are rated to the max weight limit of the vehicle for short distances (I can not remember the exact distance, I think it is under 120 miles). Do I need E -rated tires? NO. But I run them. I look at it as an insurance policy. I do trailer and I go out Chucker hunting as I am going to guess you might based on your location. Every time you go out in the high deserts in the fall/winter you are risking your life on what you are driving and how well you have it prepared. Tear out a sidewall 100 miles into no ware and 20 degree temps in the day time. I run E -rated tires and adjust the air pressure as needed for comfort or load.

Does changing things on the truck allow it to haul more and have a heaver gross. Absolutely not. Does changing things on the truck change the way it handles the load absolutely yes. The E -rated tires weigh about 25 lbs per tire more than what was stock. Heavier tire means that the suspension struts and shocks are trying to control the heavier weight of the tires that they are not designed to. So different struts and shocks are also needed. Adding a rear sway bar helps to stiffen up the rear of the truck and transfers weight back to the opposite side stabilizing the ride.

Over load springs or air bags enhance the vehicles ability to handle a heavy load but it does not change the weight capacity but it does change the way the vehicle handles the load. Adding springs is a permanent ride change. It might be great while towing that heavy trailer but it will suck when the load is removed. That is why I chose air bags with the on board compressor. The ride is 100% stock unless I want to add air by pushing a button when I have a load. This allows the best of both worlds. It also aids in hooking up a trailer. I can move the back of the truck up about 1.5 in. to aid in making a connection.

I am not smart enough to out smart the engineers at Toyota. So I try to stick with parts that are engineer as a package by Toyota. There are tons of after market parts designed to fit our trucks but few are designed to work in unison with all the other aspects of the vehicle. So I try to stick with Toyota products when it comes to things that have affects on the entire vehicle, TRD sway bar, TRD designed Magnussion supercharger, TRD Borla exhaust, Bilstein struts and shocks and so on.

Toyota is known for over engineering and under rating. The 5.7 rated at 381 hp and 401 tq was also available as a dealer option with warranty to be supercharged to 505 hp and 550 tq. Toyota knows that motor can handle more even in real world abuse situations that is why it was available with factory warranty. The Tundra rear ends and front differentials you never hear these talked about. The front ring gear (9 in.) is the same size as a Dana 60 found in 3/4 and light one ton trucks. The Tundra rear ring gear is a 10.5 in. closer to the size found in a Dana 66 found in 1 ton dullies. The Tundra just does not have the floating axles that are better for heavy weight like the Danas'.

I live in truck country. There are more trucks on the roads than anything else as I would assume is the same in your area. There are more 3/4 tons than half tons. I have heard the question and statements many times like you ask. "trucks aren't truck unless they are 3/4 tons." So are 1/2 tons worthless. To some people the answer is yes. Most of those people either know they frequently (weekly) are hauling loads that require a 3/4 ton. Or the other 3/4 ton drivers that have not figured out how to do the math that you have done. And then there are those that live in apartments have nothing to haul and just think they are cool and that is all OK. So are 1/2 tons worth less, absolutely not. There are those of us that have a everyday driver that needs to be our everything vehicle. The hunting rig, the family hauler, towing the ski boat to the lake. My boat and trailer is 5000 lbs. and I can not even tell it is behind me. When I haul the Airstream 7800 loaded I know it is back there but the truck feels totally solid including fire wood and dogs. Because of the enhancements I have done to improve towing I am comfortable towing at the max limits. I would not do what I do the way the truck was delivered even though it is rated too.

You definitely do not need the supercharger that I recently add for towing, the Tundra is strong enough. You just need to not be afraid of more RPMs than you would be running with a push rod motor. This is a 4 valve per cylinder duel over head cam variable valve timing motor. That means it likes more RPMs although the Tundras torque curve due to the variable valve timing is very consistent and flat. It has torque constantly above 1800 RPM nice and flat like a diesel except it will rev to 5800 and with the supercharger 6000 in all gears including first gear which is limiter to 4800 rpm in stock trim.

Prior to the recent (last 2 mo,) up grades I made to the Tundra I shopped for a 3/4 ton diesel. With the options I wanted all were $75,000 +. They do not ride as well on a daily basis. Although the 3/4 ton Ram with air bag suspension did ride nice for a 3/4 ton and it has a Cummins but it is in a Dodge/ Fiat. Could I get a Cummins in a Toyota, Amen. The Ford and GMs accelerate amazingly and will blow a stock Tundra off the road.
Yes there is a place for half tons.

There’s a lot of incorrect info in your statement

 

Thanks for the correction. I took a friends word that the larger than a Dana 60 was called the 66. I did not look it up but it is an 80 with a 11.25 ring gear. So as the friend said the Tundra rear end falls in size between a Dana 60 and the larger Dana an 80.

 

A Dana 70

 

I’m, no. A 70 is basically a 60 with a 10.5 ring gear. A 80 has an 11.25 I looked them up and learned something.

 

Huh?

 

My next truck will be a 1 Ton F-350

 

Likely same with me.
Probably a F-250 actually. No need for dually or such.

You're doing your math wrong.

Specs for a 2014 5.7L V8, 4x2 Crew Cab, 145.7" wheelbase with a 5'6" bed:
Curb weight = 5,560 lbs.
Gross weight = 7,000 lbs
Maximum towing capacity 10,000 lbs.
A half ton truck would typically have a payload capacity of 1,000 lbs (half ton), but the 2014 specs are 1,505 lbs.

So the maximum gross weight minus the curb weight = 1,440 lbs ... so I'd start deducting from that number.

Half-ton terminology is somewhat meaningless nowadays. It's really just to acknowledge which is more heavy-duty. 1-ton is larger than 3/4 which is larger than 1/2. But they could just say "3 is bigger than 2 which is bigger than 1"
or "F-350 is bigger than F-250 which is bigger than F-150", which is what it has turned into.

As to the OP's actual point, I've had the same feelings. I own a small landscaping company and my 2008 Tundra (DC 5.7L 4x4) was my first full-size truck, finally stepping out of my long line of Tacomas.
In the past, I only used a 21" push mower, a trimmer, and a blower. I would occasionally buy some bagged mulch from Home Depot, or transport a ladder. Basically a teenager run lawn service. The most I would do is put 25 bags(2cu.ft)in the back.
As I got larger, I bought a small 5x8 trailer and a few larger mowers.
From there, I quickly 'got into it', frequently going to a commercial landscape depot and having 2 cubic yards of bulk mulch dumped in the back of my truck, and even towing 2 pallets of sod between the truck and trailer when I got a larger 6x12.
While the Tundra has been pretty great for the more mundane work, I started to get the "huh...maybe this isn't such a good idea" feeling.
I started to realize pretty much everyone else who does "real" truck work uses an F-250.
My Tundra is great, but the "heavy dutyness" isn't quite there. It drives great, very comfortable, reliable, looks good, A/C is great, etc but...the towing manners and raw payload are lacking.
My 2008 Tundra apparently has a payload capacity of 1,440 pounds, but I'm not so sure.

A friend of mine needed to pick up a car from Chicago, 10 hours away. We drove his 2012 F250 -- fully loaded, diesel -- and that thing was a treat. Drove 10 hours out with the trailer, unloaded, barely noticed it. Drove back with a car on it, absolutely. fabulous.

If I stay in the landscaping business, I'll have to move into a F250 for my next vehicle. But having a Tundra definitely makes me undrstand why people own them for casual use!

 

We all know that our 5.7 Tundras are pretty beefy and can do amazing stuff. But with a 7100lb GVWR are they all we think they are.

I weighed my truck to crunch numbers for tow capacity. With a full tank of gas and me in the truck (125lbs...Im a fly weight) it weighed 5920 and I had next to nothing inside the cab and bed.

So 7100-5120=1180 payload left. Interestingly that is what the door sticker states. My "nothing" in the truck (receiver hitch, 4 way lug wrench, 1st aid kit) is probably close to 25lbs making it match near exactly what Toyota says the payload is with a 150lb driver. I will add I have 33" Nitto ExoGrapplers on the truck so that adds a bit as well to stock weight.

We are going Elk hunting with a buddy Joe who weighs 200 lbs.
Thats now 1180-200=980

Now lets say I put in my Grizzly 700 with winch and gear bags etc with an estimated weight of 800 lbs plus 35 lbs for ramps and cargo straps.

That leaves us with
980-835=145 lbs left of payload.

Now we bring a can of gas
145-65=80

Cant forget a small cooler for some lunch and beers
80-20=60

Lets not forget random stuff in the truck like a toolbox, helmet, and extra stuff we all have in our trucks (remember my truck was basically empty0
60-100=(-40)

Now we add our hunting packs and bows
(-40)-60=(-100)

OK remember I said I am a fly weight? Lets subtract another 75lbs to account for a guy at 200lbs
(-100)-75=(-175)

Shit we are overweight by 175lbs. Well its not much so we take our chances. But hey we burnt some gas on the way up the mountain. lest say 10 gallons or 60 lbs
(-175)+60=(-115)

OK still overweight by 115 lbs. Still close so we risk it again.

Oh but wait a minute....we GOT OUR BULL!!! HELL YEA A NICE 6X6!!!!
Quartered out that's maybe 500lbs for a nice bull
(-115)-500=(-615)

Well we are 615 lbs over.....thats not a small amount so something needs to stay back and it sure wont be that Bull. Where can we find 615 lbs?

Well how much do we like Joe because its either him and we risk still being 415 lbs over or we leave our quad up the mountain?

OK I was having some fun and maybe even a bit pedantic. I maybe even made some math errors too, but my weight estimates really arent that far fetched and the numbers are probably close to real-life situations.

It amazing to see how fast we bust the GVWR by a not small amount, 48% of payload capacity of 1180 lbs and 8% of GVWR if again I didnt fail math class again.

Would I do this? Yep, well except for the bull elk but have dont it with a mule deer a few times and we would still be over by up to a couple of hundred pounds.

Having said all of that my Tundra has 141k miles and is still going strong. Im a safe driver so its a balance of what risk do I want to take. Hauling a quad up a mountain in Idaho already has a certain risk without all of the above but hundreds of guys do just this every weekend. But this is small potatoes compared to some of the rigs heading up the mountains on the highway. Half-ton trucks with a quad in the bed, a hunting buddy, and a 28' TT full of water, food for a week, a couple of extra propane tanks, gas cans, a load of firewood, a couple of 110qt coolers for meat (hopefully without ice to save weight).

Ill be picking up my TH this weekend. Loaded how I expect it to Ill max payload and probably bust GVWR by 400 lbs estimating the weight of all my gear. at 13% tongue weight. That 400lbs is a bit riskier than the 400lbs I was over in the above scenario. Will I take that risk? Maybe, maybe not. Ill see how everything weighs out once I get the TH home, filled with water, the quad and gear and see where we are at. I for sure will take my time up and down the mountain.

Now lets say I do decide to get a bigger truck. A 3/4 ton adds about 2k lbs payload and 3-5kk lbs tow capacity for a bumper pull trailer. But for a small amount of money extra, and not much difference in ride quality a 1 ton adds again another 2k lbs and another 3-5k tow capacity. It makes you wonder why people but a 3/4 ton unless they are in a sate that penalizes you for GVWR over 10K on a private and not commercial truck/license.

I not sure I really want a diesel due to initial cost and mx costs. But that new 7.3 gas Ford sure has my ears pricked. An old school pushrod V-8 making all of the torque (475 ft lbs) under 4000rpm. If Toyota ever updated the 5.7 and released it in a "heavy half-ton" (3/4 payload and GVWR. Im sure loads on here would snap it up.

I have a 2016 crew max with the tow package and am currently pulling a 2019 Mesa ridge 5 wheel. It pulls it just fine. I did add super springs on it . The tongue weight is 1100lbs and hitch is 250lbs. No complaints at all

 

What I was told several years ago, that the name 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton mean nothing. Now that I got that out, I will explain. The only reason those names are used is to differentiate between the models of the two trucks. There hasn't been a true 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton since the mid 70's. In 1997 I had what I thought was a 3/4 ton Chevy after all it has 2500 on the door. After some research, Chevy made 2 different 2500's one was a six lug and 4L60E transmission rated at 7200 GVWR. The other 2500 was a 8 lug 4L80E transmission rated at 8600 GVWR. Both trucks had 2500 on the door but in the order description it stated 2500HD. So 4 years later Chevy brings a true 2500HD rated at 9200 GVWR. When you look at the Tundra GVWR at 7100 it measures up to a 1997 2500 Light duty Chevy. You could almost get away with calling the Tundra a 3/4 ton. As far as towing and weight capacity of a Tundra. I could go through a lengthy explanation and p*ssing off half of the membership. But I can recommend that you do a search for several different articles on towing capacity of today's trucks by Trailer Life. And one more thing, towing capacity is based on the weakest link in the towing chain. It could be springs, transmission, it can be something as little as U-Joints. Also there are the brakes, just because you can pull it does not necessarily mean you can stop it. All of this comes along with the liability, if you get in a bad accident and they go after you because you are towing 500 pounds more then the manufacture rating. And some will say no one would do that to me. Just look at all the frivolous law suites for the stupidest things.

Sorry for the long post and if anyone disagrees with me, that's OK. I've been through this exercise before.

CAD-Man

 

With a half ton truck, you can't put a lot in it before you are over the GVWR. It just is what it is. But, let's get real, the GVWR is a conservative number that Toyota (or any other manufacturer) says is a safe maximum weight that allows you to drive the truck like a Ferrari. When they pick that number, they are considering some idiot driving 70 mph over rough roads with a fully loaded truck and having to stop fast and corner hard all at the same time. Sure, you may be driving 70 mph, but its on a smooth highway, and your not weaving in and out of traffic or repeatedly slamming on the brakes for a high speed emergency stops, over and over and over again. If you are, then don't exceed the GVWR. But most of us are not doing that.

I am not concerned with going over the GVWR a little bit every now and again. A couple hundred pounds over GVWR is not much for a truck this size. I have put my family in the truck, with probably 750 lbs of stuff in the bed, and driven across the US that way many times, and got 17 mpg doing it. I could not detect the difference from when it was just me with nothing else in the truck.

Last weekend, I hauled 2200 lbs of gravel in my bone stock 2015 CM. Yes, it was over loaded big time, and no I did not drive it like a Ferrari. I took back roads at max 30 mph and slow over all bumps, and I only drove it that way for about 5 miles. But hauling 2200 lbs of gravel slowly is not much different that driving it hard over bumps and jumping RR tracks with no load at all. There is NO way I could have driven it on the highway with that kind of weight. I would have broke something and probably died in the process. And I am not suggesting that you do that with your truck. But at 2200 lbs I was not on the bump stops and I had a little bit of suspension in the back, and we went super slow so as to not break anything.

So, what am I saying. I think if you drive your truck at a conservative speed (speed limit plus/minus 5mph), in a conservative and careful way, you can exceed the GVWR by up to 500 lbs and be just fine. If you are going to speed, tailgate, drive on rough roads, weave in and out of traffic, jam on the brakes hard every time you stop, don't ever exceed the GVWR. And if you exceed the GVWR by more than 500 lbs, go slow and be very careful how you drive. The more you exceed the GVWR, the slower and more careful you need to drive.

 

With a half ton truck, you can't put a lot in it before you are over the GVWR. It just is what it is. But, let's get real, the GVWR is a conservative number that Toyota (or any other manufacturer) says is a safe maximum weight that allows you to drive the truck like a Ferrari. When they pick that number, they are considering some idiot driving 70 mph over rough roads with a fully loaded truck and having to stop fast and corner hard all at the same time. Sure, you may be driving 70 mph, but its on a smooth highway, and your not weaving in and out of traffic or repeatedly slamming on the brakes for a high speed emergency stops, over and over and over again. If you are, then don't exceed the GVWR. But most of us are not doing that.

I am not concerned with going over the GVWR a little bit every now and again. A couple hundred pounds over GVWR is not much for a truck this size. I have put my family in the truck, with probably 750 lbs of stuff in the bed, and driven across the US that way many times, and got 17 mpg doing it. I could not detect the difference from when it was just me with nothing else in the truck.

Last weekend, I hauled 2200 lbs of gravel in my bone stock 2015 CM. Yes, it was over loaded big time, and no I did not drive it like a Ferrari. I took back roads at max 30 mph and slow over all bumps, and I only drove it that way for about 5 miles. But hauling 2200 lbs of gravel slowly is not much different that driving it hard over bumps and jumping RR tracks with no load at all. There is NO way I could have driven it on the highway with that kind of weight. I would have broke something and probably died in the process. And I am not suggesting that you do that with your truck. But at 2200 lbs I was not on the bump stops and I had a little bit of suspension in the back, and we went super slow so as to not break anything.

So, what am I saying. I think if you drive your truck at a conservative speed (speed limit plus/minus 5mph), in a conservative and careful way, you can exceed the GVWR by up to 500 lbs and be just fine. If you are going to speed, tailgate, drive on rough roads, weave in and out of traffic, jam on the brakes hard every time you stop, don't ever exceed the GVWR. And if you exceed the GVWR by more than 500 lbs, go slow and be very careful how you drive. The more you exceed the GVWR, the slower and more careful you need to drive.

You get my point. Going by the GVWR we overload our truck far to quickly. Are they capable of more? For sure they are. But are they as capable as an F250 or even an F350 or a Ram 2500/3500? Well as far as a gas engine pretty darn close and about the same with the brakes. But where the bigger trucks really shine is how they handle heavy loads. A 1/2 ton truck is like you said casual/light use. Load them up with 3k lbs in the bed or tow with a pin weight in the same range and they do it and do it well. Even a 30' toyhauler with a 10,000 GVWR could conceivably have a 1300 to 1500 lb tongue weight. That would max out any 1/2 ton truck before you add people and any gear you load.

And yes being a few hundred pounds over GVWR isnt that bad if you drive sane.

 

No, 1/2 tons have there place, its the 3/4 ton trucks that are a waste. Payload is to close to the 1/2 tons for the money. 1/2 ton or 1 ton is where its at, for me anyway.

 

I agree. Plus, where I live (BC Canada) there is what is called a “luxury tax” on 3/4 ton trucks. One tons are exempt because they are considered “work trucks”. Nearly all the trucks I see on the road are half or one tonners....

 

Buy the truck that fits your needs. I have never needed anything more than a half ton truck. I owned a Chevy 2500 but only because that was the only truck you could get with a crew cab. And I hated the rough ride so much I ended up putting light weight tires on it and removing a couple leaf springs to make it ride better. And when Ford introduced the F-150 SuperCrew, I bought one.

It's all about how you are going to use it. For some, a Honda Ridgeline would be perfect. For others, an F650 is not enough.

 

I recently sold my 94 Chevy K1500 Blazer SUV, 1/2 ton rated. At about 200K miles, the rear differential case literally cracked, twisted axles, punched holes in diff cover, etc. This was the so-called 8.5 inch, 10 bolt, G80 diff. It's a governor-controlled locking diff called "Gov-Lok" but often affectionally called the "Gov-BOMB" because it can explode, like mine ;-)
After that I vowed to only buy 3/4 ton GM or Ford products, as their drive train is much beefier and durable, and they still ride smooth.
I ended up with Tundra Crewmax , its drive train & rear axle assy looks as beefy GM or Ford 3/4 ton. Would have like 6-lug axles, not 5-lug, on the Tundra, but oh well.
Tundra has 5x14mm studs, the old Chevy had 6x14mm studs. Presumably Tundra engineers calculated they didnt need the extra wheel stud.