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Heres some irony. Saw a discussion on Facebook where a poster was stating with absolute certainty that we are better off now than we have ever been. He then opined that he couldn't understand why Trump won.
 

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Let's see if all these countries and companies that have been making contributions to the Clinton Foundation over the past several years still continue to do so. If they don't, what does that tell you??
Now that she made the deals with the devils through the "Foundation" and cannot fulfill her promises to them, I wonder if they'll turn on her.
 
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Echoing some of the statements above, I'm tired of being told what I think and why I do what I do, simply because I'm a white male, albeit Jewish. Now that Trump has won, I'm being told that I'm a misogynist and a racist. Kinda ****in over it, to be honest.

Alas, the message of unity is going to fall on deaf ears, and even if positive things come out of the Trump administration, I think the left is too petty to accept them.

Maybe it's asking too much for civility. I dunno...had Hillary won, I would have stocked up on ammo, maybe a few magazines, put my head down, gone to work, and waited for my chance to help fix the stupidity in 2018. Then again, I wasn't raised to be a petulant man-child.
 

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Discussion Starter #826
Heres some irony. Saw a discussion on Facebook where a poster was stating with absolute certainty that we are better off now than we have ever been. He then opined that he couldn't understand why Trump won.
Democrats change their argument depending on the context of the debate. When they're arguing to further their socialist policies things have never been worse. When they're defending OBAMA things have never been better.
 
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Now that she made the deals with the devils through the "Foundation" and cannot fulfill her promises to them, I wonder if they'll turn on her.
I have thought of that as well. Everything is speculation at this point. But with the change of guard, I hope more is now discovered, because I really question if the investigation up to this point even wanted to find anything.

I see a lot of people, her supporters, asking if the republicans will continue the "witch hunt" now that she has lost. Why wouldn't they? If I should find my business under investigation for some sort of suspected fraud, I don't think the investigation would end just because I sell my business and quit the industry. If she was personally profiting by using her position as Secretary of State, it really doesn't get any worse than that. And from all indications, it appears as though that is what she may have done.

That is one thing that strikes me about the Clinton's, as well as their close aides, is that they never seem to care about the optics of any situation. They don't care how it looks if Bill meets with Loretta Lynch in a private meeting on an airplane during an active investigation. They don't care how is looks to set up a private server, and then subsequently bleach bit emails on that server after receiving a notice to hand the data over. They don't care how it looks to receive millions from a company that has a business needing the State Departments approval. If you are not bothered at all about how these things are perceived by the public, it's probably because that perception is very real.
 

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I have thought of that as well. Everything is speculation at this point. But with the change of guard, I hope more is now discovered, because I really question if the investigation up to this point even wanted to find anything.

I see a lot of people, her supporters, asking if the republicans will continue the "witch hunt" now that she has lost. Why wouldn't they? If I should find my business under investigation for some sort of suspected fraud, I don't think the investigation would end just because I sell my business and quit the industry. If she was personally profiting by using her position as Secretary of State, it really doesn't get any worse than that. And from all indications, it appears as though that is what she may have done.

That is one thing that strikes me about the Clinton's, as well as their close aides, is that they never seem to care about the optics of any situation. They don't care how it looks if Bill meets with Loretta Lynch in a private meeting on an airplane during an active investigation. They don't care how is looks to set up a private server, and then subsequently bleach bit emails on that server after receiving a notice to hand the data over. They don't care how it looks to receive millions from a company that has a business needing the State Departments approval. If you are not bothered at all about how these things are perceived by the public, it's probably because that perception is very real.
I wholeheartedly support the idea of further investigation to make sure that any malfeasance is allowed to have some sunshine in the light of day. I'm all about exposing the crony political system, should it actually exist.

However, it would be unfortunate if people started going to jail on flimsy evidence. Jailing one's political opponents after an election is banana republic bullshit we don't need here.

That said, I suspect any genuine investigation is going to find something because almost all insiders have skeletons. I'm fine with going after even "routine" corruption.
 

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However, it would be unfortunate if people started going to jail on flimsy evidence. Jailing one's political opponents after an election is banana republic bullshit we don't need here.
I agree, the evidence has to be there without a doubt. To some extent, purchasing access to politicians has been going on from the time of the first 'government'. If I am a top donor to a politician, I am more likely to have concerns and problems addressed, it's just the way it is. But there is a difference between access and corruption.

If I were Trump, I would have someone from my own team review the investigation and evidence, and give it to me straight as to whether there appears to be anything there worth pursuing. If the answer is no, then drop it. But there are plenty of politicians that are currently sitting in jail for perjury, racketeering, bribery and such. It isn't an easy thing to prove, but if Hillary really approved deals as the result of a "pay for play" scheme, how is she any better than Rob Blagojeich who is sitting in jail for trying to sell his senate seat? Does she deserve any preferential treatment because of her name?
 

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The evidence is there. She knowingly, and willfully removed classified material from secret servers.

I don't care if she is charged criminally, but she needs to have her security clearance immediately and permanently revoked.

She skirts about lying under oath by "not recalling" anything she's done her entire life. She's not stupid, she's corrupt and an egomaniac/narcissist.


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She needs to go down for all the emails. I know many people like me, if we were to do that, we would be escorted out of our building and have our SF86 revoked/suspended indefinitely. And all of these so called protesters around the country, they need to get the MRAPs out and form a line and tell them to move or be steamrolled. They are taking this country to backwards. Accept the loss, i did in 2008 and 2012 and moved on with my daily life.
 

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Good friend of the Clintons, once praised by her as a mentor.

Clinton says Byrd joined KKK to help him get elected | TheHill


Not that I like to get too far down in the weeds defending Trump or anything like that, but it appears to be another area where they each have a little baggage. More examples of how they are both problematic.
I'll take that as a No
 

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I wholeheartedly support the idea of further investigation to make sure that any malfeasance is allowed to have some sunshine in the light of day. I'm all about exposing the crony political system, should it actually exist.



However, it would be unfortunate if people started going to jail on flimsy evidence. Jailing one's political opponents after an election is banana republic bullshit we don't need here.



That said, I suspect any genuine investigation is going to find something because almost all insiders have skeletons. I'm fine with going after even "routine" corruption.


I would disagree. There is way more then flimsy evidence. And it's not jailing your political opponent. It's jailing a criminal that needs to be jailed. It's telling the American people that no, under my watch these people will not have their own set of rules and the FBI and DOJ will do what they are supposed to. It's putting faith back into the political and law enforcement system. There is more then enough evidence for an indictment, you haven't been paying attention or just don't have a full understanding of what went on if you believe otherwise.


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There are two separate issues, or at least the FBI is treating them separately even though they are probably intertwined. One is the keeping of classified information outside of government control. The other is the Clinton Foundation with possible "pay to play" schemes going on. My discussion with Nikolai19 was concerning the foundation, or at least on my side that is what I was discussing. So far, it seems that there is only circumstantial evidence that there might have been a 'pay to play' scheme going on. I think that might be what he was referring to as being flimsy evidence.

For the classified emails, she should lose her security clearances at the minimum, but it is pretty much baked into the cake, at least with current evidence, that she wouldn't receive jail time. That is due to the penalty that David Petraeus received for his handling of classified information. He had like 300 pages of classified information that he gave to his mistress, and received only two years probation and a hefty fine. That is why I was upset with his light sentence when compared to what others have received in the past for similar offenses. It forever set a new standard on what penalty people would receive when caught mishandling classified information, or at least the penalty for the higher ups.

So at this point, the best chance for Hillary to receive jail time for an offense, would need to be smoking gun evidence in foundation investigation.
 

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If taxes are reduced for the middle class and business, who will pay for everything?
 

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Read the Washington comPost today during my lunch break, and 3/4 of the opinion page articles were written about how Trump will fail, and all the white males that voted for Trump are going to be disappointed to have voted for him. The remaining 1/4 were articles examining how in the world Hillary could have possibly lost.

I am not even exaggerating, the articles are titled, "A Ruinous Victory for the GOP", "A Challenge to American Exceptionalism", "Is America Still the Leader of the Free World", "Someone Must Speak Truth to Power", "Trump Voters Won't Like What Comes Next", "Waking up to an Unrecognizable World". I don't think I read even one opinion that was at least neutral, they were all predicting the downfall of the US thanks to the American voter. 'Just so you know that the bunch of you are to blame.'

These people are not even waiting until after inauguration to declare him a failure. After a couple of years of Obama, with a still sluggish economy, didn't the press say he hadn't had enough time yet? Honestly, if the press feels so disgusted by Trump, they can actually place a good bit of blame upon themselves. They really didn't hammer him during the republican primaries, because they wanted him to be the republican nominee. NBC could have released the lewd tape of him talking about women at that time, and it could very well have caused him to lose the nomination. But instead, they held onto it until they figured it would do Hillary the most good. They wanted a Trump win, because they figured it would ensure a Clinton victory. Now it has backfired on them, Trump may very well have been the one best positioned to beat Hillary.
 

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I still wish Johnson/Weld got more votes

however, I do find it hilarious that Dems are still so out of touch with so many voters that they are having such a hard time explaining what happened (maybe not most voters, but enough to put Trump ahead in the Electoral College)

Democrats are putting Trump in the White House, not Republicans
 

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If taxes are reduced for the middle class and business, who will pay for everything?

We plan on invading Canada and just taking all your stuff including all your weird dollars.
Right now oil companies pull oil out of the ground and sell it to you.
After the invasion, the same oil companies would pull oil out of the ground and sell it to you.
I'm not really seeing a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #840
I'll take that as a No
You can fairly do that. I won't argue with you. It's a long and complicated story, but basically I am a life long Democrat who switched only in the last few years because I stopped being able to stomach a bunch of things. Like got so upset I felt like there was no way in hell I could cast a ballot to help them in this election. Even before I found out Hillary was the nominee, I had been waiting for a very long time to formally turn my back. I was looking for Marco Rubio, Scott Walker, or Ted Cruz as my vessel to do that. I got stuck with Donald Trump and had to make the very difficult decision that I couldn't let him throw me off course.
 
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