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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New to the forum.

Trying to locate a SR5 DCLB in Super White WITHOUT Flex Fuel.

My local dealer claims he can only search a 5 state area ("Gulf States Region").

I have used the Toyota website by putting in different zip codes and I can find them but the only options they have for engines are the 4.6 and the 5.7 FFV. I'm willing to do a fly and drive for the right vehicle.

Did the FFV engine become the only 5.7L engine option sometime in the production or is this just a glitch in Toyotas search site?

I really don't care for the Safety sense upgrades that are standard but want to stay away from the FFV option.

Any other ideas?

Thanks for the help.
 

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You can't buy a non-FFV in Gulf States.
Is that a recent change? When I was shopping in May, I thought that Toyota.com showed a 5.7L gasoline (non-FFV), but when I was on the site last week, I observed exactly what you said, i.e. 4.6L gasoline and 5.7L FFV.

AndyCBR, if you're looking for used (or new), try CarGurus.com. They have a ton of used listings nationwide, and you can set the filters for pretty much exactly what you want. Not sure what your aversion is to the FFV, it merely provides you with the flexibilty to use higher percentages of ethanol if you can find it, but I have yet to see anything above 10% in my area of Texas.
 

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What's the actual difference between FFV and non-FFV engines? According to this, other than the sensor, FFV vehicles receive upgraded components: Flex Fuel Vehicles |*Ethanol Retailer
There are guys here that know much better than I the differences, but I'm going to guess that the biggest difference is in the electronic control systems of the engines, which your article kind of glosses over. That is, flex fuel engines have the ability through the ECU to adjust engine operating parameters, such as ignition timing, over a much greater range to accommodate the variation in fuel quality, octane number, etc.

In the last decade or so, automotive engineers have optimized electronic controls to the point where high compression engines, say 11:1 CR, that once would have required all premium all the time, operate fine on mid-octane fuel. You won't develop the full power of the engine like you could with premium, but it will run fine if you're a cheapskate that doesn't need all that power. Using premium does nothing to help our Tundra engines that are designed, control systems and all, to run on either regular gasoline with up to 10% ethanol, or, regular gasoline plus higher percentages of ethanol if it's an FFV.

I am aware of the corrosive nature of higher concentrations of ethanol, and the need to adjust material specifications of the fuel system accordingly, but I am surprised that there is enough cost savings to justify having two sets of fuel system components; i.e. one fuel system specifically for high ethanol percentages, and another for regular gasoline + 10%. Why not just standardize to ethanol resistant fuel systems for all vehicles?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Is that a recent change? When I was shopping in May, I thought that Toyota.com showed a 5.7L gasoline (non-FFV), but when I was on the site last week, I observed exactly what you said, i.e. 4.6L gasoline and 5.7L FFV.

AndyCBR, if you're looking for used (or new), try CarGurus.com. They have a ton of used listings nationwide, and you can set the filters for pretty much exactly what you want. Not sure what your aversion is to the FFV, it merely provides you with the flexibilty to use higher percentages of ethanol if you can find it, but I have yet to see anything above 10% in my area of Texas.
Thanks for the info.

There are a few threads here with people having trouble with the FFV system even when they don't use E85. I'm not going to claim it's an epidemic but it does add complexity that I don't need in the truck, I'll never purchase E85. That's another reason I don't want the safety sense equipment that is coming in 2018, just more stuff to break. I heard the radar sensor is over $1k alone, not sure if true.

My wifes Odyssey had those parking sensors and they were great until one went out and it was a $600 retail part plus labor to fix. I bought the part for $483 and changed it out myself.

It's probably what is attracting me to the Toyota to begin with. I'm coming from a 1998 Ford XLT Supercab LB (equivalent to a DCLB) and simpler is better if you keep a truck for 20 years and wrench on it yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Anybody know of the closest state to LA that can get Non-FFV?

May have to search for a 2018 when they come out. The local dealer is not being honest when they claim they can "order whatever I want" and it turns out they can't get a non FFV in Gulf States I gather.
 

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Anybody know of the closest state to LA that can get Non-FFV?

May have to search for a 2018 when they come out. The local dealer is not being honest when they claim they can "order whatever I want" and it turns out they can't get a non FFV in Gulf States I gather.
I think you're beginning to understand.

From the limited research I did to help you, I think you may have a shot in those northern and coastal "less agricultural" regions on each side of the country; i.e. CA, WA, VA etc.
See regional map here courtesy of thodhye: http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/at...uying-new-tundra-out-state-11340407020908.png
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I think you're beginning to understand.

From the limited research I did to help you, I think you may have a shot in those northern and coastal "less agricultural" regions on each side of the country; i.e. CA, WA, VA etc.
See regional map here courtesy of thodhye: http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/at...uying-new-tundra-out-state-11340407020908.png
Thanks man.

I did find some in those states but man that is a long way to go to get a truck.

I'm coming from a 1998 F150 5.4L so I'm used to the crappy gas mileage. I would look at a Ford but all of the tech that gets a few mpg I believe is unproven (DI, 10 speed gearbox with low friction fluid, aluminum box, auto stop). The AL bed is the biggest non starter for me on the Ford as I have had dents and damage to my steel box on my existing truck.

So that is why I ended up looking at the Tundra. Non-DI, 6 speed tranny, steel box, etc. Also my wife recently got a Sienna and we have been impressed with it coming from a Honda Odyssey.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Why not just standardize to ethanol resistant fuel systems for all vehicles?
If I had to guess the fuel lines and other misc components are the same. Probably a different wiring harness at the engine level to accommodate the additional sensors and a different ECU.

Another downside to the FFV is you are forced to a 5k OCI to keep your warranty (10k on the non-FFV). Also, no TRD supercharger allowed on the FFV.

I would like to know why the performance is different if running E10 only. There are more than a few threads on here with people who have to reset often to clear the alcohol percentage (even on E10) and who claim the difference in driving a non-FFV and a FFV is night and day. Several claim the already poor fuel mileage is even worse on the FFV.

I wonder if relaxation of EPA guidelines will change this in the future?
 

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If I had to guess the fuel lines and other misc components are the same. Probably a different wiring harness at the engine level to accommodate the additional sensors and a different ECU.

Another downside to the FFV is you are forced to a 5k OCI to keep your warranty (10k on the non-FFV). Also, no TRD supercharger allowed on the FFV.

I would like to know why the performance is different if running E10 only. There are more than a few threads on here with people who have to reset often to clear the alcohol percentage (even on E10) and who claim the difference in driving a non-FFV and a FFV is night and day. Several claim the already poor fuel mileage is even worse on the FFV.

I wonder if relaxation of EPA guidelines will change this in the future?
Well, IT IS what IT IS. And, just like a lot of other vehicle decisions the Big 3 will let the buyer tinker with, Toyota has made this decision for you, like it or not.

What you have to remember is that of the total production of 5.7L Tundras with FFV, only a relative few have reported problems. This is NOT a guaranteed outcome; Toyota couldn't stay in the FFV business if it were. Reviews of any product or service are like that; you're only going to hear about the exceptions...the bad news. But, the silver lining of your dark cloud is...if everyone in middle America is being forced to buy 5.7L Tundras with FFV, and if the majority of owners are having problems, then Toyota is going to work out the bugs a LOT faster in order to clear the clamor and unhappiness out of their dealerships. Maybe you need to wait a year of so to buy a Tundra.

OCI? Others have told you the pros and cons. Personally, I have always thought Toyota's service intervals were ultra-conservative, and BS. GM cars with oil-minders typically calculate OCI, depending on driver habits, at 10-15K with NO restriction, to the best of my knowledge, on types of oil (mineral vs. synthetic) or fuels. You have to decide what you want to do about the warranty, but the courts decided a long time ago that dealer service was not necessary to maintain your warranty, and I don't think that's changed. If they want to duck the maintenance claim over an OCI even they can't decide on (Is it 5K, or is it 10K, with FFV?), they are probably going serve you up a ROS anyway.

Turbo on an FFV? If Toyota says no, you won't have a warranty. In fact, they probably don't want ANY turbos (except for maybe one they spec'd and sold) on ANY of their products. I would be surprised if ANYONE having any engine with an add-on turbo wasn't going to get hassled or denied on a warranty claim.

Poorer mileage? There is no reason for this to be true for E10. Thanks to stupid politicians, that probably is the only grade of regular gasoline you can buy. Where is the reference point? Keep in mind you are quoting anecdotal evidence collected haphazardly and unscientifically; there is no consensus even among TT members what mileage these trucks should get, because the trucks, and the drivers, are all different. If there is any loss of mileage when grades above E10 are used, then that is not too surprising, and likely has to do with the BTU/lb content of ethanol versus the gasoline it displaced. Back in the old days before electronic engine controls, the old hooptie went a bit further on premium than it did on regular, but cost analysis showed it didn't pay to buy premium if the car didn't "knock" on regular.

EPA relaxing their standards? Maybe "The Donald" will help us out there, but I sure wouldn't want to wait on buying a new truck until that happens...not quite as bad as holding your breath, but right up there.
 

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I went FFV so I could get the 5.7 V-8. Dealer had plenty of 4.6L available, but being in Texas FFV or nothing for 5.7L. Personally not worried in the least; any issues will be resolved under warranty and if I was worried about MPG, there were plenty of Prius’ on the lot when I bought my truck...and they were MUCH cheaper! I did go in leaning towards a DC, but after reviewing rear cabin space, had to move up to CM. Dog would have been quite uncomfortable in rear cabin of DC...he is loving rear seat of CM! In the end, I’d say if buying new, no reason to avoid FFV...dealer will take care of you 3/36 or longer (if you choose).
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What you have to remember is that of the total production of 5.7L Tundras with FFV, only a relative few have reported problems. This is NOT a guaranteed outcome; Toyota couldn't stay in the FFV business if it were. Reviews of any product or service are like that; you're only going to hear about the exceptions...the bad news. But, the silver lining of your dark cloud is...if everyone in middle America is being forced to buy 5.7L Tundras with FFV, and if the majority of owners are having problems, then Toyota is going to work out the bugs a LOT faster in order to clear the clamor and unhappiness out of their dealerships. Maybe you need to wait a year of so to buy a Tundra.
I might have to do that anyway to get the DCLB in the color I want. They are very rare and most of them up North are 4wd. Not sure I agree that Toyota will stand behind everybody. If the end result is that the FFV is a little less reliable, Toyota will fix the ones under warranty and then you are on your own afterwards.

OCI? Others have told you the pros and cons. Personally, I have always thought Toyota's service intervals were ultra-conservative, and BS. GM cars with oil-minders typically calculate OCI, depending on driver habits, at 10-15K with NO restriction, to the best of my knowledge, on types of oil (mineral vs. synthetic) or fuels. You have to decide what you want to do about the warranty, but the courts decided a long time ago that dealer service was not necessary to maintain your warranty, and I don't think that's changed. If they want to duck the maintenance claim over an OCI even they can't decide on (Is it 5K, or is it 10K, with FFV?), they are probably going serve you up a ROS anyway.
The OCI for a FFV 5.7L is 5k per Toyota. In order to keep your warranty (that you say will "fix the problems") I would think you would have to maintain that in the warranty period.

Turbo on an FFV? If Toyota says no, you won't have a warranty. In fact, they probably don't want ANY turbos (except for maybe one they spec'd and sold) on ANY of their products. I would be surprised if ANYONE having any engine with an add-on turbo wasn't going to get hassled or denied on a warranty claim.
The TRD Supercharger kit (no longer available) allowed you to install it and keep your factory warranty. Many buyers traveled to get non-FFV V8's for this reason.

Poorer mileage? There is no reason for this to be true for E10. Thanks to stupid politicians, that probably is the only grade of regular gasoline you can buy. Where is the reference point? Keep in mind you are quoting anecdotal evidence collected haphazardly and unscientifically; there is no consensus even among TT members what mileage these trucks should get, because the trucks, and the drivers, are all different. If there is any loss of mileage when grades above E10 are used, then that is not too surprising, and likely has to do with the BTU/lb content of ethanol versus the gasoline it displaced. Back in the old days before electronic engine controls, the old hooptie went a bit further on premium than it did on regular, but cost analysis showed it didn't pay to buy premium if the car didn't "knock" on regular.
Agreed that mileage claims vary widely. Don't get me started on the Ethanol subsidy created by the government. If the farmers need money at least don't make the rest of us suffer for it with corrosive fuel. I still can't believe they are going to double down with E15.

EPA relaxing their standards? Maybe "The Donald" will help us out there, but I sure wouldn't want to wait on buying a new truck until that happens...not quite as bad as holding your breath, but right up there.
Not to delve into politics too much but the current President is surprisingly pro-Ethanol, for now.

I'll buy something in the next year probably. Either order a Ford 5.0 V8 custom to get the DCLB or start hunting for the Tundra DCLB once the 2018's start rolling out.
 

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If non FF is that important to you, then why balk at the distance to a dealer that has one? It is a nice time for a road trip or you could have it shipped.
Start searching bigger cities that your airports fly to
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If non FF is that important to you, then why balk at the distance to a dealer that has one? It is a nice time for a road trip or you could have it shipped.
Start searching bigger cities that your airports fly to
Not "balking" but CA is the only option to get one in 2wd. VA region dealers say they have never gotten one in anything but 4wd.

It's a moot point anyway, the configuration I want doesn't exist at this time.

If the configuration I wanted existed I would not hesitate to fly and drive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
New info on the search!

It's amazing how much disinformation there is out there regarding special order vehicles at Toyota dealerships.

Even the sales people have to argue with the new car managers when they say model 8246 doesn't exist.

Myths:

1) They don't make a long bed double cab or they only make it in a white SR.-Not true.
2) All 5.7's are FFV in Gulf States-Not true, drove one yesterday. I do believe the 4x4 5.7 is FFV only. But 4x2 non-FFV are real.
3) The Toyota website mistakenly lumps the SR5 upgrade package and the SR5 convenience package together. They are separate option codes from the factory. This means you can get a SR5 with the Upgrade package and a chrome rear bumper (sans RCTA, parking sensors).

Found an out of state dealer who is willing to deal so I may be getting closer.
 
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