[kindlethespirit]

Yesterday afternoon I experienced a total oil loss in my 2017 Tundra Limited 5.7. The truck has 2,680 miles.

Less than 60 miles ago the truck was serviced at the Toyota dealer under Toyota care.

Here is the story. The truck has been parked since the oil change a month ago. Only drove the truck home from the dealer. Took the truck out today and went roughly 50 miles. 1 mile from home, the motor started making noise. No check engine light, no oil light...nothing. So the person that was driving the truck just continued driving it the mile home. When I got home I was told to check the truck and it was making knocking noises. I went out to the driveway and started the truck and there was no noise. So I drove the truck a little distance and the knocking started. It was noticeable but not as loud as I've heard from other cars with no oil. It was definitely low end noise. The check engine light then came on...no oil light.

I parked the truck in the driveway and pulled the dipstick and there wasn't even a film of oil on the dipstick. I started looking around and there was an oil slick from where the truck had been parked earlier. I looked under the truck and everything under the engine has a slick of oil on it.

So I have a few questions:

1. Any thoughts on how the oil came out of the engine? Double gasket on the oil filter?
2. Is the motor ruined ( I hope so) since there was quite a bit of low end noise.
3. Any ideas on how to approach the dealer, in that 98% chance this was a mistake that they made doing the oil change
4. Are any of you aware of a problem with the Tundra that caused this oil loss?

Thanks for you time reading this.

 

[OldGuy43]

If the oil slick begins at the front of the engine, the oil filter housing is probably loose/not sealing.They could have left off the housing O-ring seal, but there's not any real reason to have removed it in the first place except shop policy; the O-ring should be fine for 2-4 changes, but I change mine every time since an O-ring is provided with the filter.

It's easy to install the O-ring incorrectly, and IIRC the filter box points the correct O-ring groove positioning. I'm really surprised that "professionals" went to the trouble.

If you've never serviced the truck yourself, then it's 100% chance it happened in the dealer's shop. Did you request the service?

Edit: First step is to get on the ground and look up to see if the engine even has a filter and filter housing. Shop guys get interrupted in the middle of work constantly...breaks, lunch, phone calls, etc. The dull ones forget where they were and resume work at the wrong place; e.g. guy removes your filter and housing, removes the housing O-ring (or not), goes on break and has a stimulating conversation about a co-workers date, comes back to his bay and resumes work, but he forgets he has not installed the O-ring, or the filter/housing either. Lets down the lift, puts in the oil and gives you the truck back. You drive out leaving an oil trail. Why I don't accept free oil changes by "others". :disappointed:

 

[kindlethespirit]

If the oil slick begins at the front of the engine, the oil filter housing is probably loose/not sealing.They could have left off the housing O-ring seal, but there's not any real reason to have removed it in the first place except shop policy; the O-ring should be fine for 2-4 changes, but I change mine every time since an O-ring is provided with the filter.

It's easy to install the O-ring incorrectly, and IIRC the filter box points the correct O-ring groove positioning. I'm really surprised that "professionals" went to the trouble.

If you've never serviced the truck yourself, then it's 100% chance it happened in the dealer's shop. Did you request the service?

The truck has 2,680 miles on it. I've had it for 13 months. The dealer did the oil change because Toyota Care pays for 10,000 mile or once yearly oil change. So the dealer is the one that changed the oil 60 miles ago. The truck is a new truck.

 

[OldGuy43]

The truck has 2,680 miles on it. I've had it for 13 months. The dealer did the oil change because Toyota Care pays for 10,000 mile or once yearly oil change. So the dealer is the one that changed the oil 60 miles ago. The truck is a new truck.

I got that. I have a 2017 with 1972 miles and one oil change (1000 miles). I did the change. No oil slick.

OK, I'll answer the question...you asked for the service. It's OK, it's a good choice to clean out the assembly and break-in trash; but it's not a choice a dealer would volunteer. It was the elapsed time, and your request, that made them agree to do the service. The dealer is still just as guilty as if his service manager had insisted on doing it.

 

[Jack McCarthy]

If I had to guess, you most likely trashed the lower block by ruining a crankshaft bearing from the low oil. I did the same thing with oil being too low in an older car. With time that noise will continue to get louder and louder. For me the entire lower block had to be rebuilt since it's more cost effective than fixing it due to the labor intensive hours required.

 

[McGovTundra]

HOLY SHIT!

I'm just reinforcing here: DO NOT START THE ENGINE. You might well be headed for a fight with the dealership. So time to go on the offensive. I would find a mega qualified mechanic with no relationship to the dealership and let him (her?) have a good look around your rig. You, Sir, don't sound like you're that person (no dig intended) so you NEED THAT PERSON. To evaluate what can be seen right here and now.

And another piece of advice: photos; photos; more photos. LOT OF PHOTOS. You can't over document.

And another piece of advice (I'm not a lawyer by trade but have to become an amateur one by need): write down everything. Index to time the best you can. Index to locations/places. Amazing what the mind can forget in just 72 hours.

And another another piece of advice: do not share your photos and written documentation with the dealer. Do not tell them you have it. At least not right now. I'm taking the position you're getting ready for a fight. Be the best prepared you can.

Please report back.

 

[McGovTundra]

And just one more thing. A fresh oil change, especially with synthetic (I'm learning this with my 2017 Tundra as this is the first I've ever run this in) oil, can be deceptively hard to see/read on the dipstick when the oil is new, new, new. At least that's been my experience. The first time I experienced this I flipped out. I realize you're experiencing physical signs/sounds of low oil.

I guess I'm just babbling cuz this is such a crushing potential DEALER GONE ROGUE story.

 

[kindlethespirit]

And just one more thing. A fresh oil change, especially with synthetic (I'm learning this with my 2017 Tundra as this is the first I've ever run this in) oil, can be deceptively hard to see/read on the dipstick when the oil is new, new, new. At least that's been my experience. The first time I experienced this I flipped out. I realize you're experiencing physical signs/sounds of low oil.

I guess I'm just babbling cuz this is such a crushing potential DEALER GONE ROGUE story.

I know what you mean about the new oil and hard to see....nothing comes off onto a napkin when you wipe the dipstick, so there's definitely not enough oil in the engine to register on the dipstick.

 

[OldGuy43]

I was under the impression that oil pressure, like other critical dash functions, would have redundancy with a warning light and message, not to mention shutting the engine off with low oil pressure, but I can find nothing in the owner's manual. Maybe I've missed it.

If the only warning is the oil pressure gauge, then Toyota has screwed up the design.

 

[Powertechn2]

Any driven vehicle or implement will not shut off due to low oil, or low oil pressure.

If the sensor failed while you were driving over a railroad crossing, death could happen.


This is the same with a riding mower even. There might be idiot lights, and the gauge would show pressure, or lack there-of, but that is it for safety reasons.

Pretty much if the engine seized from no lubrication, there is no lawsuit. If engine shuts off due to a malfunctioning pressure switch, and you get in an accident, lawsuit would happen.

 

[StevenD]

Sounds like you just need to call up the dealer in the morning and have them send a tow truck. It's under warranty. They last touched the drain plug and oil filter. Sounds pretty easy to me.

 

[Jack McCarthy]

Before the dealer does anything, I'd have them acknowledge the noise coming from the lower block and the low oil in case they decide to be sleazy and just drain/fill and send you on your way.

 

[OldGuy43]

Any driven vehicle or implement will not shut off due to low oil, or low oil pressure.

If the sensor failed while you were driving over a railroad crossing, death could happen.


This is the same with a riding mower even. There might be idiot lights, and the gauge would show pressure, or lack there-of, but that is it for safety reasons.

Pretty much if the engine seized from no lubrication, there is no lawsuit. If engine shuts off due to a malfunctioning pressure switch, and you get in an accident, lawsuit would happen.

What was I thinking?...My dementia must have remembered of the automatic fuel pump shut-off with no oil pressure feature. :doh:

Yep, you are right. Car makers should never expect a common sense maneuver like steering to the shoulder, or of simply walking (or running) well away from the vehicle, the tracks, and the train if it happened that there was just enough momentum to strand the vehicle RIGHT on the tracks. If a train wasn't in sight, I would try to push it off to save it.

Last week (or week before) in downtown Austin, a family stalled their car in a center lane of I35: Did they steer to the shoulder with their last vestige of momentum? Noooo, they let that POS roll to a dead stop smack in the middle of I35. Did they put on their hazard lights, and then run for their lives? Noooo, they remained inside the vehicle. There were multiple fatalities when they were rear ended by a semi, but I think the truck driver was unscathed.

But, I could be judging them too harshly; there are times on I35 when you can't get to the shoulder without maneuvering power, and you sure wouldn't voluntarily leave your vehicle into that traffic. But, if you understood the likely consequences of doing nothing, you would probably demonstrate your willingness to rub fenders during the coast-down to make an escape path.

 

[Powertechn2]

What was I thinking?...My dementia must have remembered of the automatic fuel pump shut-off with no oil pressure feature. :doh:

Yep, you are right. Car makers should never expect a common sense maneuver like steering to the shoulder, or of simply walking (or running) well away from the vehicle, the tracks, and the train if it happened that there was just enough momentum to strand the vehicle RIGHT on the tracks. If a train wasn't in sight, I would try to push it off to save it.

Last week (or week before) in downtown Austin, a family stalled their car in a center lane of I35: Did they steer to the shoulder with their last vestige of momentum? Noooo, they let that POS roll to a dead stop smack in the middle of I35. Did they put on their hazard lights, and then run for their lives? Noooo, they remained inside the vehicle. There were multiple fatalities when they were rear ended by a semi, but I think the truck driver was unscathed.

But, I could be judging them too harshly; there are times on I35 when you can't get to the shoulder without maneuvering power, and you sure wouldn't voluntarily leave your vehicle into that traffic. But, if you understood the likely consequences of doing nothing, you would probably demonstrate your willingness to rub fenders during the coast-down to make an escape path.

Most of my experience in the low oil shutdown is from power equipment.

Years and years ago supposedly someone on a riding mower tried to cross a road, it shut down. They gone.

At least that is the story that the engine mfg's stuck to.

There are a few models that will go into limp mode, these are high priced commercial riders where idiot operators just don't ever check the oil, and blow engines. Now they will just cut power/rpm, and shut the blades off, and you have to limp back to the trailer.

But generally speaking, society as a whole is full of idiots.

About 18 years ago I was in my f150, went to pass someone, had about a car on them and the engine just died. I didn't stay in the oncoming lane with traffic coming towards me. I did however cut off the person I passed, then go to the shoulder.

 

[McGovTundra]

But generally speaking, society as a whole is full of idiots.

The bottom of life's Funnel-Of-Stupid is a very very crowded place.

 

[tjm]

Sounds like you just need to call up the dealer in the morning and have them send a tow truck. It's under warranty. They last touched the drain plug and oil filter. Sounds pretty easy to me.

^^^This

I could see it being an issue if he change the oil himself, but since they did it and it’s a new truck, should be pretty straightforward.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[kindlethespirit]

^^^This

I could see it being an issue if he change the oil himself, but since they did it and it’s a new truck, should be pretty straightforward.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I totally agree that it should be simple and I'm hopeful that it will be. I'm just concerned that they're going to add oil and say it's fine. In the end, since there is currently no oil in the motor and it's knocking but not super loud, that they'll say drive it and we'll see. I just would rather deal with it now and not a few months or a month down the road. I'm a fix it now person.

 

[OldGuy43]

I totally agree that it should be simple and I'm hopeful that it will be. I'm just concerned that they're going to add oil and say it's fine. In the end, since there is currently no oil in the motor and it's knocking but not super loud, that they'll say drive it and we'll see. I just would rather deal with it now and not a few months or a month down the road. I'm a fix it now person.

It will all depend on the integrity of the dealer.

It wouldn't be the first time a sleaze bag tried to anoint a gigantic FU with a little oil, and swear it's normal..."All these Tundras' have a little bottom end knock". It would be a good time to have a mean, aggressive-looking pit bull (or wife) to ride in with you. A woman starts getting hot and righteously indignant, and stuff starts getting done...maybe it's the grating high frequencies in their voice and the fire in their eyes.

I would be looking for at least a short block assembly; anything less, IMO, and your truck will never be the same new truck...it will potentially have problems it never should have had.

 

[kindlethespirit]

The truck is at the dealer and of course they're sympathetic since they're the ones that screwed up.

This is how it has gone......I went out with the S.A and the mechanic that will be working on the truck. I had him pull the dipstick and acknowledge that there was no oil on the stick. The S.A said that they'll get oil in the truck, get it all cleaned up and have it back to me today. I explained that if the motor was making a lot of noise adding oil and cleaning it up wasn't going to suffice. The mechanic stepped in and stated that they would put oil in, keep oil in and see if the truck was still making noise. He also said that they will be doing multiple "health tests" on the motor and check all of the stored codes. The mechanic also stated that these motors are bullet proof and when oil starved they make a horrible racket but usually don't end up with any damage. I can guarantee that they're not going to open up the motor or do a compression or leak down test or anything significant. I don't know how you determine exactly what damage, if any, has occurred without opening up the motor.

I'm waiting to see what the final outcome is, however I'm pretty sure that unless they hear anything after adding oil, their answer is going to be "drive it and see if there's a problem".

 

[StevenD]

And just a reminder... make sure you push for a 125k Platinum warranty for free when this is all said and done.