Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just returned from a trip pulling 6900 lb travel trailer over a couple mountain passes in CO. I replaced all four rotors and pads a few weeks ago and have towed a couple times since without issue. About three miles from home, off interstate, I experienced some wobble. Pulled over, found two lugs sheared off on rear drivers wheel and missing one lug nut on the rear passenger wheel. I have since pulled the rear wheels and encountered one more sheared lug and one cross threaded lug. I am unsure of the cause of all of this and looking for thoughts. I do have a torque wrench and torqued all wheels to 97lbft and confirmed my fronts are in fact still at that from when I did brakes all the way around. New rotors and pads are Power Stop Z36, or something. Aside from the matter above, I have found the truck to pull quite well and be geared good. It's a 2011 with 5.7 and 160k and generally runs well. Thanks in advance.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
YIKES . Only things i could suggest

Make SURE the torque value you are using is correct for your OEM alloy wheels . Alloy and steel wheels values are diff ( i think )
Perhaps a re torque before a towing trip , in case the heat n expantion has loosened the original install.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
YIKES . Only things i could suggest

Make SURE the torque value you are using is correct for your OEM alloy wheels . Alloy and steel wheels values are diff ( i think )
Perhaps a re torque before a towing trip , in case the heat n expantion has loosened the original install.
Thanks, 24hrsparkey. All sounds good; appreciate the feedback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
no Probl, sorry i couldnt come with something better .

God thing the OEM wheel fits perfectly on that Hub/Axle ring in the center or your shait would have come off and a much worse day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
287 Posts
Did a shop do your breaks? I would suspect they used a impact gun to put the lug nuts back on without hand threading them first. Then used the full force of the impact gun and over tighten the lug nuts and that's what caused your issue. I would back off the reaming lug nut on all the wheels and re-torque them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Did a shop do your breaks? I would suspect they used a impact gun to put the lug nuts back on without hand threading them first. Then used the full force of the impact gun and over tighten the lug nuts and that's what caused your issue. I would back off the reaming lug nut on all the wheels and re-torque them.
I did the brakes myself and torqued to spec on aluminum wheels. If I would have had a shop do them, I would have verified over-torquing and repair as necessary when I brought the truck home. I don't recall ever having a shop tighten anywhere near spec; always over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
For those following/interested: I ended up buying new wheel studs and lug nuts, pounded out the old studs, “pressed” replacement studs in and out it back together. Took for a quick drive and checked lug nut torque; all seems well. Thanks for following and offering input.

882660
882661
882662
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
Interesting ...

Those studs although OEM , just look short . Then again im used to looking at 3/4 ton truck 8 lugs .
IS there any chance the new rotors are thicker , causing even less of the stud doing the work.
But , the rotor to axle protrusion looks about right ....
Dunno , this has be a bit stumped .

NEW studs ,,, PLEASE re torque those in a few hundred miles as there is a chance they might settle in some
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
Assuming the 95ft Pounds is correct ... Does your "gut" or does it "feel" correct ... as in does it feel tight enough ?

I will admit i never use a torque wrench on any of my trucks .... I just know my compressor , my impact gun feel , adjust the gun to 3/4 power and carefully watch the socket as it gets tight . Yes i may go to H ELL for this , my bad .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Interesting ...

Those studs although OEM , just look short . Then again im used to looking at 3/4 ton truck 8 lugs .
IS there any chance the new rotors are thicker , causing even less of the stud doing the work.
But , the rotor to axle protrusion looks about right ....
Dunno , this has be a bit stumped .

NEW studs ,,, PLEASE re torque those in a few hundred miles as there is a chance they might settle in some
On it! Will be verifying sporadically as well as before, during and after the next trip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Assuming the 95ft Pounds is correct ... Does your "gut" or does it "feel" correct ... as in does it feel tight enough ?

I will admit i never use a torque wrench on any of my trucks .... I just know my compressor , my impact gun feel , adjust the gun to 3/4 power and carefully watch the socket as it gets tight . Yes i may go to H ELL for this , my bad .
It definitely seems low, but I haven’t seen or read anything from Toyota suggesting a different value.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Scary stuff !!
97 ft-lbs is the specified torque in owner's manual, for alloy wheels. Steel wheel torque is 154 ft-lb.
It's always bugged me that Tundra only used 5 x 14mm studs, whereas all GM 1/2 ton rated vehicles generally used 6 x 14mm studs -- oh well.
Service manuals commonly warn you "dont apply lubricant on studs" because it will reduce friction that may result in nut looseening. But "dry" studs will not produce consistent torque values, you will under-torque.
I always apply "grey/silver" antiseize paste to the studs -- antiseize is NOT a lubricant. Helps prevent rust & seizing, and IME a more reproducible torque value.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Scary stuff !!
97 ft-lbs is the specified torque in owner's manual, for alloy wheels. Steel wheel torque is 154 ft-lb.
It's always bugged me that Tundra only used 5 x 14mm studs, whereas all GM 1/2 ton rated vehicles generally used 6 x 14mm studs -- oh well.
Service manuals commonly warn you "dont apply lubricant on studs" because it will reduce friction that may result in nut looseening. But "dry" studs will not produce consistent torque values, you will under-torque.
I always apply "grey/silver" antiseize paste to the studs -- antiseize is NOT a lubricant. Helps prevent rust & seizing, and IME a more reproducible torque value.
Thanks for the feedback!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
I am not sure what happened here. I am guessing (guessing) that you may have torqued these as dry studs and that it resulted in less clamping force than was intended by the OEM torque spec, essentially under torquing the studs accidentally because friction was preventing you from getting the full clamping force. Those studs left on the wheel really look like the wheel was loose. Also, make sure you take a close look at the back of that wheel. It may have some damage as well that could be a problem long term. Pay especially close attention to how it fits onto the centering lip. It should be nice and tight and I bet it is not. Also, the stud holes could have some damage so look everything over carefully before you get this back on the highway.

I have had both steel and alloy wheels on my Tundras and the studs are the same for both. The steel wheels do torque to 155 ft lbs while the alloy wheels are only 97 ft lbs. So, you are not going to damage a stud by over torquing a little bit because they are made for the higher toque value of a steel wheel.

In fact, when I bought my 2015 CM with alloy wheels, I torqued them to 155 ft lbs not realizing the difference. I did it the first couple times and it did not seem to do any damage.

I also agree that 97 ft lbs seems low. I torque mine to 115 ft lbs just because it feels better. Also, I do apply a little lubricant to my studs every other time I rotate the wheels (I rotate every 10K). Anti-seize works well for this or just a little shot of WD-40. You do have to be careful doing this. The torque value is meant for a dry stud, not lubricated. But my feeling is that you need some lubrication after awhile of running in rain and salt and so forth.

So, I am lubricating the studs on alloy wheels every other rotate and torquing to 115 ft lbs. I have not had any problems doing it this way. I know I am over torquing the wheels by doing it this way, but I have had 4 Tundra's and combined 450,000 miles with no problems and never had to replace a stud or lug nut or wheel yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
I dont think anyone explcitly mentioned it above, but TOO LOW torque can also lead to bolt/stud failures.
That was covered in the "wheel_stud_bolt_failures 1994" article and the author referred to it as "fatigue failures from cyclic stress". Dirty or rusted threads will also reduce the clamping force of wheel to hub, as will dirt or corrosion between the wheel & hub.
@ bluemtnwagon : pls be certain those new wheel studs are fully seated and tight against the backside of hub flange!
Else, lateral forces on the wheel would continue to pull outward on the studs, resulting in looseness and insufficient clamping force on the wheel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Assuming the 95ft Pounds is correct ... Does your "gut" or does it "feel" correct ... as in does it feel tight enough ?

I will admit i never use a torque wrench on any of my trucks .... I just know my compressor , my impact gun feel , adjust the gun to 3/4 power and carefully watch the socket as it gets tight . Yes i may go to H ELL for this , my bad .
You can buy torque sticks to use with your Air Impact that will set the torque correctly. Harbor freight sells them and they are not very expensive. There are several in the set with varying torque output. They essentially twist at the torque rating to set the correct torque value and prevent you from over torquing with bare impact. And they really do work. I have used these on my wheels for a long time now and have run them on with the torque stick and then gone back with a torque wrench to check the accuracy, and they do work very well. There are about 10 of them in a set varying the torque rating from about 60 up to 150 ft lbs.

This is how a lot of guys at tire shops torque wheels because it is fast and easy. Here is a link. 1/2 In. Torque Limiting Extension Bar Set, 10 Pc.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top