Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi All, I'm in the market for a new truck. Apologies in advance for a long winded post. Brevity being the soul of whit - you'll just have to accept that I'm methodical and stupid! lol. Also not up with the acronyms of online jargon so I'm going to be verbose.

Have been a die hard GM fanboy my whole life, ans family growing up. Always have had excellent vehicles, none for me have failed to go many hundreds of thousands of miles. However, After the total disaster with my 06 Sierra, and the subsequent realization of just how far GM quality had fallen between that and 99, Put simply, my 06 is the absolute worst, cheapest built vehicle I've ever owned. I'm just done burned out on GM and as I told the dealer - the 2014 would have to absolutely blow me away to be back on my short list.

Well - I'm posting here so the obvious is that I'm not blown away...

To the point specifically. I'm researching all I can from several forums (of several makers) of the truck enthusiasts. and would love some input.

Right now, I'm comparing the Ram, F150, and - the Tundra. (that's what's readily available in my area) After the spectacular results of the last 106,000 miles in my wife's Avalon, GM has lost this fanboy. and Toyota (so far) has really interested me.

My requirements:
6'+ bed
4 door cab.
MN and crap/winter road friendly - factory setup. (Not much of a modder anymore. got that out of my system back when vaccum advance was high tech, and you could crawl under the hood to work on the engine.)
Don't want 20, 30, or 40 inch chrome with rubber bands on it for tires. I need a truck - that means doing truck things and off road to me means more than missing the curb at the grocery store and parking in the grass.
RELIABILITY!!!


So Far I've driven all 3 and here's my impressions so far:

Ram Outdoorsman. 17' vs 20" wheels (thinking better potential snow performance) Very quiet cab. Excellent road manners. Wife friendly driver. 2 tone package has good looks out of the box, 5.7 has good power. Trans really harsh. jerky shifts. slow brake response.

F150. HUGE cab, massive rear legroom. excellent rebates allow for a slightly higher trim level than competition. better road manners than the dodge on segmented pavement. However, bland. bland style, bland engine. Nothing on this truck is extreme it all works fine- but nothing inspiring either, everything just - is. nothing to cry over, but nothing to really love either.

Tundra Rock Warrior. Tough looking styling. Love the tire/wheel package. great power, just destroys the other two. Taught road feel. love the tailgate strut. Comfy seats, but Meh on the cluster. Gauges visible, but not as clear as competition (tunnel vision?). lack of a power seat is a niggler, but not a deal breaker. More road noise - some of that is a duh on the agressive tires. Stiffer suspension, wheelbase is just right to accentuate more bump on segmented concrete roads. Big deal killer though - wife heard wind noise from pass door at 60+ on a day with almost no wind. after 70 I heard it too. sounded like windows not rolled all the way up.

We're going to try another tundra, hoping maybe just something outta whack on a door seal or something there.

So - to the questions I'm asking from you.
1. I've seen the 2014 pics. I think they made a few mistakes on the exterior, but from what I see the dash is vastly improved. What's the consensus on holding out for a 2014 model?

1a. Think they'll offer a RW package in 2014? or will it be far later? My GMC is just shy of 70k now, I can stretch it a couple of months, but once I pass that, trade in drops a significant amount. Also - I'm just NOT carrying that POS through another winter without just letting it roll over in a ditch to die.

2. I know this is a Toyota biased forum, but I would like some driving impressions. are your tundras living up to the vaunted legendary quality control and longevity? Even the little stuff please. it's the nickle and dime crap that needs to be replaced on the GMC that is killing me. At the risk of dating myself a quote from a popular movie once upon a time - "I think this ship was put together by monkeys. Oh, she's got a fine engine all right, but half the doors don't work"

At this point all factors are on the table for me. Each of the 3 have their strong points, and each have things I'm kinda afraid of.

Dodge seems to be infamous for being awesome at first, then 3 seconds out of warranty it simply seems to rust away standing still and look like something out of an apocalypse movie.

Ford seems to go strong but is either a love it or leave it thing. plus they switch a light bulb out and call it a new model and your value disappears faster than a cold beer in July.

Toyotas hold their value but god forbid if something breaks - you need a second mortgage and Johnnie Cochran, and divine intervention to get it fixed.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,869 Posts
First off, there was something wrong with that RW if you were hearing wind noise, my Tundra is quiet (except the noise from my exhaust and tires) and makes zero wind noise at all speeds.

If you like the RW but want more bells and whistles (like power seat) then I would suggest you look at a TRD with the SR5 package. You won't get the fancy RW wheels but the suspension package is the same and the standard TRD has 18" wheels rather than 17" wheels (IMO better). You should be able to get a TRD SR5 for the same price or cheaper than a RW too.

Both the TRD and RW have stiffer suspension than a standard 4WD or 2WD Tundra so if the ride is too stiff then look at either a 2WD or a standard 4WD model (w/o TRD or RW).

Most people on here don't like the 2014 but I think they look pretty good, however, I think there are better deals to be had on 2012-2013 models.

I am sure Toyota will offer the RW package on the 2014 as it has got to be a cash cow for them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,315 Posts
So - to the questions I'm asking from you.
1. I've seen the 2014 pics. I think they made a few mistakes on the exterior, but from what I see the dash is vastly improved. What's the consensus on holding out for a 2014 model?

The Jury for me is still out on the new body design. However, the interior is a nice upgrade. I personally like my 2012 CM the way it is and wouldn't want to change it if I could.

1a. Think they'll offer a RW package in 2014? or will it be far later? My GMC is just shy of 70k now, I can stretch it a couple of months, but once I pass that, trade in drops a significant amount. Also - I'm just NOT carrying that POS through another winter without just letting it roll over in a ditch to die.

I would hope so on the RW package. Now if you don't go offroad much or need the bigger tires, I would look for a TRD offroad package. Fuel economy is better too.

2. I know this is a Toyota biased forum, but I would like some driving impressions. are your tundras living up to the vaunted legendary quality control and longevity? Even the little stuff please. it's the nickle and dime crap that needs to be replaced on the GMC that is killing me. At the risk of dating myself a quote from a popular movie once upon a time - "I think this ship was put together by monkeys. Oh, she's got a fine engine all right, but half the doors don't work"

At this point all factors are on the table for me. Each of the 3 have their strong points, and each have things I'm kinda afraid of.

Dodge seems to be infamous for being awesome at first, then 3 seconds out of warranty it simply seems to rust away standing still and look like something out of an apocalypse movie.

I have owned 2 dodges in the past 8 years. Your assessment of them is spot on. Great at first, and then goes downhill from there (way before warranty goes out). I can't speak for the new dodges, but as they say, history repeats itself. For me, warranty doesn't do much for help when the vehicle sits at the dealership for weeks on end without loaner. Major fail in my book.

Ford seems to go strong but is either a love it or leave it thing. plus they switch a light bulb out and call it a new model and your value disappears faster than a cold beer in July.

I can't say too much bad about F-series trucks, hell I almost bought a F-350 6.7 diesel, almost signed all the paperwork but just walked out. All my friends own new Fords and they seem to be very good vehicles. My FIL has the new EcoBoost and it is ok in the performance department, it has been to the dealer twice since new....

Toyotas hold their value but god forbid if something breaks - you need a second mortgage and Johnnie Cochran, and divine intervention to get it fixed.

Not sure where you are getting your info on cost, but I have to say they are very competitive on pricing and labor. In fact, our last 3.4L Tacoma needed the timing belt changed and some other minor parts changed out at 90K miles. Toyota was the cheapest for parts and labor by a pretty good bit. We had the dealer do it and they gave us a good parts and labor warranty with it too.
One more thing, when the vehicle doesn't have to go to the dealership all the time, kind of makes the cost a mute point if the Toyota goes once every 10 years. The wife and I figured up what the cost was on ownership of 2 Tacoma's and one 4Runner with each over 100K miles:
2 gas caps that went bad and 1 O2 sensor.
Not too bad for 340K combined miles

Wish I could say the same for my Dodge's. I just posted in another thread that I have 10K miles on my Tundra now and no trips to the Dealer or having to work on it myself. Never had that with my Dodges. I was lucky to not spend thousands of dollars per year to keep them running.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
Like 2010Crewmax said I have no wind noise at any speed up to 85 mph so far in my 2013 Crewmax Rock Warrior. If you have to power seats go with the TRD with SR5 like 2010Crewmax said as well. My brother and best friend both own Ford four door trucks (2012) & (2010) and wish now after seeing mine that they had a tundra. You can't go wrong with Toyota.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
830 Posts
Subscribed, as I've only owned for three months, and myself am going off of the legendary Toyota reliability, more than actual known reliability.

New GM is reputedly better than old GM. 2006 would be old GM. 2014 is supposed to be a vastly better truck than 2013; and 2013 should have been better than your 2006.

Try driving other Tundras. I do not recall hearing wind noise in mine. I've got a base model, and brand new Duelers on it, so no tire noise. Just some exhaust noise, and engine noise only when I get on it. Reasonably soft ride, but I certainly can tell where the bumps are. I'm not sure what SR5/TRD/RW buys in terms of changes (I bought used) but I'd think base would generally ride smoother, if that is your cup of tea.

If you're dealing with winter weather, I'd look into oil coating. Whatever it is you are looking at. I don't think any of the OEM's are putting a lot of work into corroision resistance; all of them will show rust after a few years. Oil coating, although it is not your only option, is the one I decided to go with, in snowy NH.

Edit: I recall looking at the 2014 Tundra in a different thread, and not caring for the looks as much as my 2010 (which should be the same as a 2013). My opinion.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,853 Posts
"Toyotas hold their value but god forbid if something breaks - you need a second mortgage and Johnnie Cochran, and divine intervention to get it fixed."

I think you may be confusing Toyota with Mercedes, BMW, et.al. :dunno:

First off, notice that on Toyota Tundra, everything important is built huge, compared to the other trucks (check out suspension components, drive shafts, etc.). The stuff just don't break For the most part, stuff you read about in here where guys are breaking stuff, the vehicle has been modified and/or abused.

A few guys have random problems here and there, like water pumps, steering racks, etc, but nothing widespread, and certainly not expensive (usually covered under warranty). I can't really think of an expensive repair on these trucks, that weren't user created :dunno:

Every once in a while, you might hear about an engine or trans failure...I think I've heard of about 2 trans failures on here, and maybe 5 engine failures. A couple of the engine failures seem to just be freak occurences, the other ones seemed suspicious, like the owner neglected it somehow, but I dunno.

My '07 tundra has been in the shop twice for repairs- water pump (covered under 5/60k warranty), and leaky drive shaft (covered under 5/60k warranty). About to hit 47k miles on it, I've been out of warranty since last september (due to time), and I've had no other issues, nor am I concerned in the least bit (like I was scared shitless when I hit 70,001 miles on my last dodge ram) :lol:

There are several guys in here with over 150k miles on their 2nd generation tundras, with no big issues other than normal maintenance and repairs. One guy lost his trans somewhere around 80-90k miles, but fixed it, and I think he's in the 150k mile range now. Youll see a lot of 1st generation tundras well into 200k+ miles, with no major issues. These Toyota trucks are just frikkin stout.


Also, as a note....this is the first Toyota vehicle I've ever owned. Bought it when it was 2 years old with 8,900 miles on it. Prior to this truck, I have owned Ford, Dodge, and Chevy trucks/suvs. I've never been a "fanboy" of any brand....until I discovered this tundra, and have enjoyed its reliability for the past 4 years, and still going :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
My comments on repair cost are mostly hearsay. Don't know very many people with toyotas personally. SO, looking things up on the web - of course, what are the first stories you hear? the horror stories. things like $4,000 repairs for air pumps for the converters - that sort of thing.

I'm trying to get some real world stuff so I can go in armed with real information

I deal with lots o winter. Enough to where I have 2 houses.... the nicer one is on wheels and gets used when the water gets nice and stiff. However, I'm also lucky enough that I don't drive many places with lots of snowmelt chemicals. The Townships even get stingy on salt since the gravel is locally produced.

The ice house is one bear to tow. Not becuase of the weight though, it probably weighs less than 1000#. but tows well,.. like a house. It's 9' high, 8'wide, and 16' long. One big giant slab sided construct made of aluminum and insulation that slips through the air in exactly the same way that a building doesn't.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,853 Posts
Toyota recognized the AIP problem and extended the warranty for those to like 10 years, 150k miles or something like that. But yes, those used to be an issue to...but a member in here came up with a bypass method to fix it :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
I will tell you this. I don't own a Tundra yet, and I am kind of in the same boat as you. My reasons for the Tundra are a little different, but still I've been looking at other makes trying to make sure that the Tundra is what I want. Here's my experience so far:

Dodge: Used to work at a transmission shop. Most of our work was on a the Dodge family line up. Granted they are going to a new transmission from the ZF family but what that means, is if something does go wrong your going to pay Mercedes Benz prices to fix it. Styling on Dodges are usually good, but do you want your truck to look good and suck at being a truck?

Ford: Fords are nice, they have done a lot recently to improve the F150's. The leg room is amazing, but so is the Tundra. The F150 is available with a 5.0 which is nice but it's not a 5.7. There is an available 6.2 but it cost an extra $15k for the Raptor package. I like the F150, but being the number 1 selling truck ever, means that your truck, looks like everyone else's truck. Parts are readily available, but they are still expensive for whatever reason. Also while at the tranny shop we fixed a lot of F150's that had an over heating issue.

Tundra: Ton's of interior space. A little light on the interior styling, but it's a truck not a BMW. Exterior looks great and Toyota has their long standing tradition of making reliable vehicles. Offered with a 5.7 and 5.7ffl (bleh). While at the tranny shop, never had a tundra (even a first gen) come on the lot for repair. It's priced a little higher than the others but I feel that it's a better truck. Oh, it will pull the space shuttle, c'mon that alone is worth an extra like $50 sticker price.

Waiting for the 2014: I have a wallpaper on my dual monitors right now that has the 2013 on one side and the 2014 on the other. I have to say putting them nose to nose, I'm leaning to the 2014. It looks a bit more aggressive, and I like the body lines a little more on the new one (that shocked the heck out of me). I didn't think I would like it, but I do.
 

Attachments

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,853 Posts
^^^its nice to hear a transmission guy chime in.

When my dodge was out of warranty, I had it at my buddy's shop several times for repairs....probably put his kid through college :lol: ("buddy" doesn't mean free work, just honest labor rates and time, and honest work).

Soon as I bought my Tundra, I took it to his shop to show it off. He's a lifelong GM and mercedes guy. Of course the jokes started, about my "jap truck", but then he said he was just playin, its a nice truck. He said the thing was built to be bulletproof, and it sucks that he'll never see me in his shop again :lol: I don't think he ever had to repair anything on a tundra, although he had done some tire rotations, oil changes etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
While I was at the tranny shop we had a couple of Tacoma's come in. One was a 4x4 and was damaged cause the stupid kid driving it didn't know what he was doing. One was lifted and a manual, the kid destroyed the syncro's, and warped the pressure plate. Then we looked at the front diff and saw that the lift was too high and he didn't do a diff drop and had cracked his front housing. His parents weren't too happy.

The other was a slammed Tacoma that the kid didn't put a skid plate on, slammed the truck, bent the flywheel and input shaft, didn't realize it slammed the back end and bent the output shaft and broke his drive shaft.

Both were nice trucks they just wen't completed properly.

If my memory serves correctly in the few years I was at the tranny shop, we only had 3 Toyota's come through the door at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,128 Posts
My Crewmax is like the inside of a bank vault at 85 mph. I have a minor hum from my Toyo ATs but I can barely hear it unless one of the windows is down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,945 Posts
fair warning if you ever go in deep mud, these truck's alternators are on the very bottom of the engine with nothing protecting them. i would highly recommend investing in some bud built body armor for the under carriage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Dealership 60 miles away has a dozen different Tundras. headed there today to look at a few more. They're considerably higher in sticker price than the local one though. They'll have to match my local, or throw an equivalent in options for me to purchase. The RW here on the lot is 34k and the other one wants 38K for what on paper looks like the exact same loadout.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,933 Posts
I'll admit, I've been a Toyota fanboy for a very long time. My first truck was a 1985 Toyota 4X4 longbed 5spd. I had 650,000 miles on it. It didn't die, it was stolen. :mad: (doesn't mean I have not tried other brands because dammit I have and dammit I've been let down EVERY time)

I've owned a slew of Toyota trucks, 4Runners, and cars. I'm on my second Tundra now. I had to sell the first one and missed it so bad I went right back to the dealer less than one month after selling the last one.

My only complaint on the Tundra is the gauges, and the damn black fabric seats and lint. Holy hell...

Sooo, wifey has a 2012 BMW X5 50i which is a damn rocket monster. With the M sport package it's pulling under 5.0 seconds 0-60. Leather interior, fully loaded... ...and we still get in the Tundra because we love the way it drives and the room it has.

^ that says something. ^
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dragos28

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Frustrating day sort of with the dealership. They only had RW's in the crew max configuration and only in limited trim. Drove a number of SR5's with the offroad package though.

One surprise was that there was a considerable difference in cabin noise between various trucks with the same option package. On the bright side I believe I located the source of the wind noise that bothered me. In each of the ones that seemed noisier, there is a piece of flat foam attached to the edge of the door seal at the outer rear edge of the door. it fills the gap between the front and rear doors at the top of the door. In all but one of the trucks with the double cab I drove, the glue on the foam had let go, and the foam slid down pushing against the door seal, leaving an air gap. 4 of the 6 trucks I drove with a double cab had this issue.

What really stuns me is that such a small thing could cause such a huge alteration in the sound.

I have also started to lean towards the crew cab moreso than the double. I found each example I drove to be quieter than the double cab configuration.

looks like I'll have to spring for the limited in the Rock Warrior to get my power seats!

Onto the dodge test drives.
Got to drive one with the 8 speed - I like it alot. I found it to be the equal of the toyota in shift smoothness and efficient power delivery. skip shift on the freeway delivered power right now without any hesitation. Dodge also has the combination of the crew cab and a 6'6"box. Very nice ride with the airbags as well.
If dodge had the quality and longevity reputation anywhere near toyota's I would have bought one then and there. I would have ordered an Outdoorsman crew cab with long box and the 8 speed. Then bought a bumper for the big horn from the parts shop and headed down to the exhuaust shop to put on duals. IMO if dodge had the outdoorsman package with duals like so many of the other models, that would be a killer combo for them. However, with dodge's knack for making a truck that falls apart if you drive it.... I'm going to sit a bit and see how this 8 speed holds together.

Ford. Well, what else can I say that I remain rather underwhelmed by it. It's probably got the nicest interior of the three, but lackluster performance and bland looks. in addition, by the time I got a package loaded out with what I want, it's several thousand more than the others. If it had just a bit more go, I could probably hang some subtle stuff on there to make it stand out a bit. Then again - I have to throw MORE money at it to make it what I want. I also felt that it had the highest noise level when it came to wind. was a good 20mph wind today and I could really hear the buffeting on the windows.

SO my opinions today.
+ the toyota has the best overall cab when it came to wind noise, the most comfortable seats, and the best exterior look. smoothest powertrain
-couldn't find my favored one. large variation between examples, means I am hesitant to order one to my specs. flimsy door seal may require constant maintenance? still can't believe the noise change just from adjusting it.

Dodge
+ quad cab and long bed. 8 speed on par with toyota. Better gas mileage. Escellent interior. I'm also partial to 2 tone and the deep red color.
- more wind noise than toyota. hit or miss reliability. Untested drivetrain. Depreciates faster than a rental crack house in a flood zone. quad cab long bed at the cost of payload capacity.

Ford.
+ biggest cab ever. 6'6" bed. nicest interior, lowest road noise. car like road manners Everyone and their cousin has one.
-Everyone and their cousin has one. not in love with the looks. most wind noise. Console and bucket seats only in upscale trim. lowest performance without any mpg advantage. no off road type package - ie only street tire packages. worst bench seat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
After rereading my summary of today, I have to admit, no one vehicle really distanced itself to me. I believe I have unofficially pushed myself to wait for a 2014 tundra. If the interior shots on the web and reading somewhere about suspension tweaks for ride translate to real world improvements, then I'll likely be in a 2014 RW before the snow flies.

I will have to wait for more pics of the exterior to surface as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,894 Posts
I am unsure of how you got that ford had the largest cab.... But ok.

I guess if you mean cab size with longer bed, maybe.

What I am curious about, however, is that I do not see you testing the new gm's :scratchhead:

Honestly, I like the new gm body, I like the 6.2 ( the 5.3, is useless/gutless imo), and if you are considering everyone else, even RAM, why not look at them?

Dodges depreciation is the largest thing going against them. I can lease a quad cab 4x4 5.7 now for 99/month (there is something like 2400 down, but whatever) however aside from leasing, they are money losers. Gfs bro lost over 12k on his 11 by trading it in for a new jeep... I could sell my 10 RW CM now for more than he sold his 11 laramie loaded with extras.... we paid within a few k of eachother, and he got chrysler discount, I didn't. he had more rust underneath.... rusting bumpers, all sortsa stoopid stuff. also got about 15 mpg average on the high side, normally less. Highway was more, mds...

plus he followed me on the highway on the one long trip he took.... I was clearing all that wind and ruckus.

If you like the interior of the 14 tundra or the 150, wait and look at 14's. I would guess the wind noise issue you are talking about is a goofy glitch that hasn't been brought to attention of dealers in pdi yet. I can't really tell what "foam" piece you are talking about, I have no foam near my door seals....
My truck is fairly quiet, I have had a weird noise twice at 90, the second time I found out the actual door seal had shifted when loading/unloading something from the huge back seat (cm) I re positioned it and all was well.

The only trucks in the running I would look at would be the 14 gm (chevy, same with different front ends) and the new tundra. the ferd does nothing for me looks wise, and everyone has one. see many blue ones too, ewwww. screams yamaha and please try to put your key in me cuz i am not your truck. sooo many blue ones with chrome pkg. ford does have a nice package with projectors and blacked out with 4x4 and 5.0 or larger engine, but it costs$$$... and at the end of the day it is still a ford.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
The good thing these days for truck buyers is with everyone introducing new models, the competition will keep dealers dealing. I've been perusing the lots for weeks trying to decide if I want to buy now or wait it out for the 2014's.

The issues that I have are, new models will go up in price, trade in value will go down and looks like the era of cheap money is over so interest rates will rise. All this means that my out-of-pocket expenses will go up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I am unsure of how you got that ford had the largest cab.... But ok.

I guess if you mean cab size with longer bed, maybe.

What I am curious about, however, is that I do not see you testing the new gm's :scratchhead:

Ford: objective opimion based simply on my sitting in the back seat. I got long legs and the ford sure seemed to have alot more knee room. and yes. the combo of the crew cab and 6'6" box is appealing to me.

GM:
my existing truck has burned me bad on GM. Been a GM lifer -but the isues with this truck ha turned me away.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top