Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum banner
1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone, Thank you for taking the time to read this as I'm sure there are many posts like this one.

I have a '17 Crewmax Limited with the JBL system. and I wanted to increase the base output of the system so I ordered a Pioneer 8" IB-Flat sub to just pop in the stock enclosure. It didn't do what I wanted it to do and there was some clipping at about 50% volume. I decided it needed more power so I bought the Kenwood KAC-3001 amp. It is supposed to deliver about 200 RMS at 4 ohms. Perfect!!! Well.. not so much.

I think it sounds even worse than complete stock. Boomy yet quiet, the sound is separated as in the sub is behind by a millisecond or two.

I have not had much time to mess with the settings on the amp and LOC yet but I plan to later today.

My thoughts on the issues are as follows...
-Since I'm still using the stock enclosure it's flexing due to the increase in power and drowning out that bassy goodness? Should I replace the enclosure with a sturdy MDF one? I know Pioneer sells an enclosure specific to this sub for about $40 on Amazon. Or maybe add poli-fil?
-I'm using the stock HU and a line out converter and I grabbed the signal from the stock sub output and maybe the signal from the JBL amp is not what I need since the JBL sound processing is directing most of the bass through the front door speakers?
-Something completely different as I am new to this kinda stuff, and I thought I had picked up enough info from youtube and this forum???
-I'm confident that the Sub and amp will work well together under the right conditions, I just need to figure out what is wrong
Any help would be greatly appreciated
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
965 Posts
^This.

But... if the stock enclosure is sealed, there's typically a large amount of fudge factor and other subs might work in it as small variances in sealed enclosures don't effect performance like vented enclosures do.

First thing, I'd check your phase - out of phase speakers can sound underwhelming. If you have a phase switch on your LOC, flip it and have a listen. If you don't have a phase switch, just reverse the (+) and (-) speaker wires on the sub.

Second thing, since you are pulling signal from the stock sub output, check to make sure you don't have redundant low pass filters. The stock output should already have a low pass filter on it; running it through a second or third filter causes really wonky behavior at the final output - kind of like what you are describing. With your aftermarket amplifier, disable low pass filter or at least turn it up to the highest setting (150hz, 200 hz, 240hz, etc).

FWIW, I find that most flat/slim subs are poor performers and have T/S parameters that produce high F3's (like 50 or 60 hz). This can easily cause folks to turn up the bass and volume and create a lot of boominess but lack authority lower two octaves (where a sub is purposed to play in the first place).

What sort of improvements were you hoping for? Better low bass? More articulation? Higher volume/power handling?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Powertechn2

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Blenton, thank you for the detailed reply. Last question first is what I was looking for as far as an improvement. All of the above would be correct.

I just got back in from adjusting the frequency response and that made a HUGE improvement!! BUT It has also made it very clear that Spider2k was also correct. That plastic enclosure is now the weak point and I swear I can hear it flexing. Not only that I think I'm asking too much from a single 8inch slim sub. So I think I need to rethink what speaker I use and do a bit more homework before I buy.

I thought There was a guy on this forum that did just as I have with fantastic results which is why I did things the way I did. Either I missed a step or his version of awesome is different than mine.
Again, Thank you both
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
965 Posts
Different version of awesome...?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
965 Posts
Glad to hear that some tuning helped.

It looks like you've found the limitations of your stock system and of a slightly different setup. Assuming you are using the Pioneer TSW2002D2 sub, I took a cursory look at it's T/S parameters; xmax on the woofer is a paltry 2.8mm :( . This would explain why it isn't matching your criteria for better, lower bass. Bass is about moving air. You can measure air displacement from a sub the same way your measure engine displacement - stroke x bore. In the case of a speaker, the cone area is the bore and the xmax or maximum (linear) excursion is the stroke. The motor design (not JUST the size or quantity of the magnets) determines how articulate the sub is and how well it can handle high excursions. This makes it more obvious how larger cones typical produce deeper bass (though that isn't always the case).

Although xmax certainly isn't the only criteria for a good sub, if we compare that Pioneer to a midrange-price Infinity 860w and a high excursion Sundown X v.2, you'll see a marked difference.

Pioneer: 2.8mm
Infinity: 13mm
Sundown: 19mm

If we assume the cone area is roughly the same, you can see that the Infinity and Sundown will create exorbitant amounts of bass compared to the Pioneer.

I'm not trying to bash the Pioneer - I've run Pioneer products for years - but the design isn't really what you are looking for, IMO. I actually run the Infinity listed above is several different applications. Currently, I have one shoehorned into a shoe-box sized enclosure behind my seat in my tundra. For an 8, it is truly impressive. I used to have one in the stock JBL enclosure in a 96 explorer. I retrofitted the stock JBL 6.5" sub with the infinity and the results were, again, impressive. I have even used it in a small home theater sub that plays alway down to 25 hz with no issues!

But, like you said, "awesome" has different versions :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Powertechn2

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,848 Posts
for what its worth

I really like my JL 10TW3

but like spider2K pointed out, its made in a custom box exactly to the specs it needs
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top