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Discussion Starter #1
So recently i've been paying more attention to what the truck is doing, esp once chatting with the guys from DAPtuning and here are some observations that we've come across.

Sensors i'm monitoring:
Timing
Knock
Rpm
Gear
Temps

Results from said sensors:
Timing: 18-21 + advance *until* 4500 rpms
knock: sits steady at 18 (essentially detecting no knock) *until* 4500 rpms

Those are the two important ones along with the AFR, afr is pretty solid in the mid 11's until it gets around 4200 rpms, thats when it gets hairy. 4200 is when it starts to creep up to the 12.1-12.0 range and then the afr drops to 10.3-10.9. So i used the edge insight CTS2 to datalog this. At those times where it drops and creeps up is when the knock sensor detects whats going on for the conditions. The knock sensor reading has gotten as low as 11.5 (not sure exactly how to explain how much that is) but when it does that time timing advance makes it way to maybe +3 - +5. There is obviously some tweaking of the tune that needs to be done. I've given these results to magnuson in hopes that they can remedy the situation.

I've thought of maybe dropping to a step colder plug to help some. I run 93 e10 fuel (unfortunately) and i run the stock fit kit plugs (IKH22 denso).. any of the smart guys have any thoughts, theory's possible remedy's etc.. ??
 

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The only knock sensing that I know a lot about is the GN. It gives me a knock retard value. Essentially it tells me how much timing it is taking out when it see's knock.

Need to find a value table for the knock sensor to know what it is actually doing.

When an engine starts to run lean, it will knock easier. IF it is leaning out, then it might be sensing knock and pulling timing.

Afr's affect knock/detonation/pre-ignition.


When I was comparing 87 to 93 octane, I could read total timing. If you can get that reading it might tell you more of what the advance reading means.
 

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The only knock sensing that I know a lot about is the GN. It gives me a knock retard value. Essentially it tells me how much timing it is taking out when it see's knock.

Need to find a value table for the knock sensor to know what it is actually doing.

When an engine starts to run lean, it will knock easier. IF it is leaning out, then it might be sensing knock and pulling timing.

Afr's affect knock/detonation/pre-ignition.


When I was comparing 87 to 93 octane, I could read total timing. If you can get that reading it might tell you more of what the advance reading means.
It is a shame than E85 isn't a more sought after option in the Tundra world. In the Subaru world many are converting to E85 due to the octane rating being near 100 and the cooling effect of it in boosted engines. I talked to DAP Tuning and he said these engines hate E85 and when the computer detects no knock it really doesn't know how to respond. Sounds like you need a Protune as the OTS tunes are not vehicle specific and are based on works well in 90% of the vehicles.
 

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so you are thinking the knock sensor is overly sensitive? no audible knock just before timing is pulled?
any aluminum specs on the ikh22s?
i'd try the next step colder, 24s, i believe.
also back when i played with turbofords, most wrapped the knock sensor with teflon tape as the sensor would pick up way too much extraneous noise
 

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Discussion Starter #7
so you are thinking the knock sensor is overly sensitive? no audible knock just before timing is pulled?
any aluminum specs on the ikh22s?
i'd try the next step colder, 24s, i believe.
also back when i played with turbofords, most wrapped the knock sensor with teflon tape as the sensor would pick up way too much extraneous noise


I've thought that as a possibility as well but it's picking up quite a bit. When it does pick it up the w/b tells me I'm around 12.3 or so. Not horrible but not good at all. I'd love to see some results from others as well. I'm thinking the plugs are worth a shot and can't really hurt, but I'm curious what they will do where the afr is actually decent. Will it then run it rich? Or maybe just a touch of difference.

It's hard to get ppl to give results it seems or they just don't care to know the answer.
 

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the colder plugs will help abate pre-ignition due to heat. afr's won't change.
i put the colder plugs in my sc truck here in az, i have smaller sc pulley, jba's, keiths 3" race exhaust with cats, no change to afr or mpg here.
running crap 91 10%e gas on 93 bd tune. there have been a few times i have heard detonation before switching to colder plugs. i attribute that to even more crappier valero, circle k, or other 3rd world gas. havnt heard it since, doesn;t mean it's not happening, but i try to only get shell or mobil gas now.
pull the plugs and look for aluminum specs, i saw some on my ikh22 plugs when i changed them.:(
 

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I've thought of maybe dropping to a step colder plug to help some. I run 93 e10 fuel (unfortunately) and i run the stock fit kit plugs (IKH22 denso).. any of the smart guys have any thoughts, theory's possible remedy's etc.. ??
I used IKH-24 plugs in my non-Flex fuel supercharged truck for about half a year when I was running 2 ASP pulleys + occasional shot of nitrous.
They worked great.
The stock IKH-22's were completely worn out when I changed them out at around 50K miles, possibly due to pre-ignition.
As motorhead mentioned, the cold plug will have no effect on AFR, but will reduce the possibility of detonation.
The only drawback with using colder plugs, is that they might foul if you drive the truck like a grandma.
As long as you drive it hard, you will have no issues with using IKH-24's

With that setup, on the stock TRD tune, my AFR was in the 9.6-10.6 range.
I feel that is way too rich and is likely done by Toyota for extra safety.
I would like to see around 11.5 for a good power/safety ratio.
Your AFR climbing into the 12's is a bit too lean for my liking on the stock internals.
 

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So recently i've been paying more attention to what the truck is doing, esp once chatting with the guys from DAPtuning and here are some observations that we've come across.

Sensors i'm monitoring:
Timing
Knock
Rpm
Gear
Temps

Results from said sensors:
Timing: 18-21 + advance *until* 4500 rpms
knock: sits steady at 18 (essentially detecting no knock) *until* 4500 rpms

Those are the two important ones along with the AFR, afr is pretty solid in the mid 11's until it gets around 4200 rpms, thats when it gets hairy. 4200 is when it starts to creep up to the 12.1-12.0 range and then the afr drops to 10.3-10.9. So i used the edge insight CTS2 to datalog this. At those times where it drops and creeps up is when the knock sensor detects whats going on for the conditions. The knock sensor reading has gotten as low as 11.5 (not sure exactly how to explain how much that is) but when it does that time timing advance makes it way to maybe +3 - +5. There is obviously some tweaking of the tune that needs to be done. I've given these results to magnuson in hopes that they can remedy the situation.

I've thought of maybe dropping to a step colder plug to help some. I run 93 e10 fuel (unfortunately) and i run the stock fit kit plugs (IKH22 denso).. any of the smart guys have any thoughts, theory's possible remedy's etc.. ??
J_fuggin - Are you happy with the Magnusun SC on your Flex Fuel Truck? I have a 13 FF and am considering the SC as well. Also, I spoke with DAP Tuning in Fort Worth TX that is going to do a professional tune on the truck once the SC is installed that will replace the Bully Dog Module. I was planning on just running the recommended 91 octane after the install as well as following Magnusun's other recommendations - Use recommended oil viscosity, run at least 1 tank of 91, and use Toyota coolant.

In preparation for the SC, I just installed the TRD Cold Air Intake, TRD Cat Back Exhaust, and TRD Sway Bar.

Can you expound more on any problems or drawbacks you're experiencing with the SC on your FF Tundra?

TIA
 

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Discussion Starter #11
J_fuggin - Are you happy with the Magnusun SC on your Flex Fuel Truck? I have a 13 FF and am considering the SC as well. Also, I spoke with DAP Tuning in Fort Worth TX that is going to do a professional tune on the truck once the SC is installed that will replace the Bully Dog Module. I was planning on just running the recommended 91 octane after the install as well as following Magnusun's other recommendations - Use recommended oil viscosity, run at least 1 tank of 91, and use Toyota coolant.

In preparation for the SC, I just installed the TRD Cold Air Intake, TRD Cat Back Exhaust, and TRD Sway Bar.

Can you expound more on any problems or drawbacks you're experiencing with the SC on your FF Tundra?

TIA


I love it, just want the tune corrected. The truck does everything better with the supercharger. Dustin will eventually get his hands on my truck as well and it will be even better. It's well worth the cost. Kit is very user friendly too. If you're flex you don't even need to change injectors or fuel pump. (For now at least) unless Dustin finds otherwise.

Personally I'm not looking for crazy power. Just refined of what's there.
 

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Whew boy. The sh1t just hit the fan on my TRD S/C Flex Fuel with Magnuson tune 2013 Tundra with 25,000 miles. I was driving home in an atypical grandma fashion (I had 6 180 lbs Humvee tires rolling around loosely secured in my bed) and as I pulled in the driveway the dash lit up with the old check engine light/flashing 4Lo combo and I noticed that the afrs were way too high at idle (verified with dual AEM wide band gauges). I shut her down and pulled the following codes using OBD Fusion on my phone:

P0171 System Too Lean (Bank 1)
P0174 System Too Lean (Bank 2)

At the same time I noticed that my alcohol density is ~85.4% (it has been steadily climbing - glad Toyota "fixed" the Flex Fuel issue)




Thinking maybe it was a fuel quality issue and wishfully thinking a refueling would finally properly reset my alch %, I cleared the codes and drove 1/3 a mile to fill up with 93 octane at Shell (I only use top tier gas). After the fill up I let it idle for a few minutes and then gingerly drove the truck at slow speeds allowing for the 7-10 minutes it is supposed to take for the alch density calculation to reset. During this time, the AFRs started to drop a little, but they were still way leaner than they should be for moderate driving (above 14.7).

I drove back home and hooked the truck up to techstream in a failed attempt to reset the alch density and I pulled the following codes:

P0171 System Too Lean (Bank 1)
P0174 System Too Lean (Bank 2)
P109C Fuel Pressure Switching Value Circuit Low



Then thinking that maybe the magnuson supplied vsv fuel pump relay was bad, I pulled it out and idled the truck with the stock fuel pump relay and there was no change.

Sometimes the AFRs will drop down into an acceptable range under load or at idle, but other times it will sit at 17.5 - 18 which is clearly no bueno. The other odd thing is that there are times when the two banks are out of sync by 1.5 or more which is odd - I have never seen the AFRs deviate more than a few decimal points between banks. The other thing I have noticed is it running slightly rough, but just slightly.

The TRD air filter is clean and I cleaned the MAF with MAF cleaner when I reinstalled the TRD air box as part of the Bullydog/Magnuson tune install. From some research, and especially in light of the P109C code, it seems like I am having a fuel delivery problem?

@ViktorG @Vu37 @l1tech @TRDsparks @MagnusonSuperchargers @j_fuggin_t help!

The dealerships around me can't perform an oil change (ask me how I know), let alone work on a Flex Fuel, let alone work on a Supercharged Flex Fuel.

Obviously I am parking my rig until I can get a better understanding of what is wrong, but I am all ears for any suggestions.

ugghhhhhh. :crying:
 

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Where you able to get the fuel density reset? I've never been able to get it to reset by clearing codes alone, I've always had to use the TS. So you would want to reset fuel density, add a few gallons of gas, start truck and let it idle for at least 10 minutes WITHOUT DRIVING, I let it go for 15. Have you verified that the fuel pump vsv relay and the fuel pressure switching valve are actually functioning? Is the EFI #2 fuse good?
 

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Where you able to get the fuel density reset? I've never been able to get it to reset by clearing codes alone, I've always had to use the TS. So you would want to reset fuel density, add a few gallons of gas, start truck and let it idle for at least 10 minutes WITHOUT DRIVING, I let it go for 15. Have you verified that the fuel pump vsv relay and the fuel pressure switching valve are actually functioning? Is the EFI [URL=http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2]#2 [/URL] fuse good?
Nope. For some reason I am no longer able to reset the alchohol density via the relearn proceedure with my version of Techstream. I used to be able to, but it randomly stopped working - I guess I will have to try to download a new version.

I'll check the EFI #2 fuse. Thanks for the quick response, l1tech.
 

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Sorry I can't help you with this one man, Toyota does not sell flex fuel vehicles in Canada.
 

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Make sure to go through all the maf. intake hoses, Throttle body gaskets as well as injector o ring gaskets. Evap lines. Make sure there isn't any leak or disconnected. You can use propane tank and move around intake and hoses and see if idles smoother. To find leak Or use brake cleaner spray around.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Make sure to go through all the maf. intake hoses, Throttle body gaskets as well as injector o ring gaskets. Evap lines. Make sure there isn't any leak or disconnected. You can use propane tank and move around intake and hoses and see if idles smoother. To find leak Or use brake cleaner spray around. Call 867-5309.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
Much appreciated, vu37. I will check for all air and vacuum leaks.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
i think i would uninstall and reinstall the tune and see what results you get from that. the p0109 is pretty normal for the way they kick in the higher flow rate on our trucks, it sees the pump switch so it gives a soft code on it, don't be alarmed on that one, but the lean is obviously what needs to be fixed. check your calibration id and confirm with BD that its current as well
 

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i think i would uninstall and reinstall the tune and see what results you get from that. the p0109 is pretty normal for the way they kick in the higher flow rate on our trucks, it sees the pump switch so it gives a soft code on it, don't be alarmed on that one, but the lean is obviously what needs to be fixed. check your calibration id and confirm with BD that its current as well
Thanks, @j_fuggin_t

That is good to know about the P0109 code- i had not seen it before and it had me a bit worried. I'll check with BD in the morning and then reflash. I have to get this truck operational as I have some big tows ahead of me and right now I am dead in the water.
 
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