Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum banner

81 - 100 of 259 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
Discussion Starter #81
Some of us are...



I think Toyota is too much of a follower, and not a leader in the truck game. Just look at the effective "copies" and designs they are throwing at the public. I do not understand how you can invest billion+ in building a new factory in San Antone capable of 200Ku per year and be satisfied in running that factory at 50-60% of installed capacity. Their market share is not making any gains and they are bringing on the 3G (cough) into the market with little fanfare. We are demanding from Toyota, but, it is rewarded with loyalty when they get it right. IMO, Tundra is nothing but a niche market for them, and they appear to be satisfied in keeping R&D, tooling start-ups, etc to a minimum. Not bashing, but, I believe Toyota has seriously under scoped the brand loyalty to the Big 3 and what it takes to build the buyer base.
Short version, Toyota expected that if they throw the Toy badge on the truck, the buyers would come. That is certainly not the case, and the annual sales (lack of) supports that strategy was not going to get it done loud and clear.



Good point. They need to pay attention to Big 3 marketing techniques and product innovation and less attention to copying what they think will sell or buyers want. Missing a big opportunity here in my view. Hire an intern and let them scope out the forums for "free" feedback, and skip the roundtable BS discussions with the engineers as "what do we do next guys for our new model Tundra". I got an idea, why not ask the customers that already own one.



I wouldn't think that all. I still have my "not cool" outdated 2000 Tundra and
love it more. Getting closer to being a classic everyday! Hang on to your
Gen 2 and enjoy no payments. Your Gen 2 still has another 20 years of life or more left in her!



NO one has seen the 2014 yet, but, we sure have seen the promo release pics and specs which explains a lot of the complaints or suggestions from many folks that have posted already. :eek:
Also, I have not only seen the 2014 up close, I have sat in it and took photos of it. Not sure where you get the thought that "NO one has seen" it yet.

-Tim
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,853 Posts
I don't understand the thought that the factory in San Antonio, Tx is running at 50-60% of capacity. I have spoken with about a dozen automotive reps from Ford, GM, Ram and Toyota. They all say the plant is 100% at capacity. In fact, the big issue for Toyota and an HD truck is somehow increasing capacity. I can't imagine they would build a new factory to build a true 3/4 and 1-ton HD truck.

Again, like I have said before, Toyota is at crossroads as to what they want to do.

-Tim
:confused: This is just one source...but that looks pretty close to 50% capacity to me :dunno:


American Truck Loyalty Beating Camry Spurring Sales Surge - Bloomberg


"Detroit has protected those profits better than any other vehicle category. When Nissan started selling the Titan in 2003 and Toyota rolled out the second-generation Tundra in 2007, they each built factories capable of producing more than 200,000 trucks a year. Last year, Toyota sold 101,621 Tundras and Nissan sold 21,576 Titans. Ford sold 645,316 F-Series, GM sold 575,497 Sierras and Silverados, and Chrysler sold 293,363 Ram pickups."
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,545 Posts
I hope the '14's grow on me. When I first saw the GenII's, Iwas thinking "ugly as sin" I got past it, basicly ate crow. I still think the interiors of our GenII's are "ugly as sin".

When I fist saw that dash when I took my first test drive, I told the salesmen I will be back when they redo the dash. Maybe I'm getting old, but it was **** all easier to clean the cluster on my fist gen.

I guess, if I'm in bitch mode, make the traction control a 1 button on or off. I've got stuck more times with that stupid shit than with it. I forget to turn it off because it is not a simple prodecure. ****ing nannies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
I will speak that which has not been spoken.
BRING BACK THE 1 ST GEN FRAME, drop the 4.6 in it with 6 SPEED trans power train for those who need a bigger Tacoma AND CALL IT TUNDRA II.
Hey, I think you're on to a success with that idea! That sounds just like the truck I want!

Ok boys, flame away - Tacoma is ugly! IMO, anyway. Beauty is in eye, I know, but me old eyes cain't stand a Tacoma. Not to mention me old body cain't get into one without twisting me neck out. Great idea, Evol!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
Discussion Starter #85
:confused: This is just one source...but that looks pretty close to 50% capacity to me :dunno:


American Truck Loyalty Beating Camry Spurring Sales Surge - Bloomberg


"Detroit has protected those profits better than any other vehicle category. When Nissan started selling the Titan in 2003 and Toyota rolled out the second-generation Tundra in 2007, they each built factories capable of producing more than 200,000 trucks a year. Last year, Toyota sold 101,621 Tundras and Nissan sold 21,576 Titans. Ford sold 645,316 F-Series, GM sold 575,497 Sierras and Silverados, and Chrysler sold 293,363 Ram pickups."
Don't forget, that the Tacoma is being built in that same factory now. Yes, when it was just the Tundra, it was running at 50%. Now, with the Tacoma, no way.

For last year, numbers from Pickuptrucks.com, Toyota sold close to 242,000 Tundra and Tacoma pickups. This means that they most likely outsold capacity (sold 100% of units made in 2012 and emptied lots of 2011 models) or are running at over-capacity (weekend shifts).

-Tim
 

·
Spooge Guzzler
Joined
·
6,318 Posts
Good thought, I have heard some desire for a few questions on the supercharger. I would say OVERALL that everyone wants more options. Yet, with Toyota's production model, I see that being difficult.

If you haven't read it, here is my post on why more options are tough for Toyota to offer: Why You Really Can't Special Order a Toyota | Tundra Headquarters Blog

-Tim
Yeah, I didn't mean special ordering options. I know how that works.
I meant, a new trim pkg, like the sr5 or TRD.
Let's say, they call it the "RT" pkg or whatever.
And it would come with the supercharger, sway bar, and whatever other features would come with that trim pkg. and it would come from the factory like that.
Throw those on the dealer lots and I can't think of a single reason why they wouldn't sell like crazy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
Discussion Starter #88
Ahhh..ok. I get it. I thought the 200k capacity was for Tundra trucks only...not Tundras AND Taco's.
No worries. Same thing happened to a Ram rep I was talking too. He couldn't figure out why the San Antonio plant wasn't running at 100% capacity, then I told him the Tacoma was built there. He was all like "Oh shit, well then they are at 100% capacity." :lol5:

I found this line in the link to the story above interesting; "The Detroit Three also reap huge profits because of the economies of scale they receive from producing so many trucks, Dominique said. GM and Ford each have three factories devoted to full-size pickup production. Chrysler has two pickup plants."

And Toyota has one. That is what I mean when I say Toyota is at a crossroads. Do you spend millions to build another factory (offer more options, an HD model, Diesel option) or do you see what the market does and play it safe? It is quite a gamble for them to invest that kind of money in a segment that is dominated by Ford and GM AND that has such fierce brand loyalty. I know what I would do. I would take my time and make very calculated risks based on high ROI. If the other truck makers aren't sell the hell out of it, I wouldn't offer it (see: 1/2 ton diesel).

-Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
With the painted grille surround I like the 2014 look.I'd miss the reclining seats for sure and a power bump would've be nice. I leased a 2013 because I couldn't turn the deal down but in 31 payments my lease is up and since my Son is working at a Chevy Dealer it'll probably be a Silverado 6.2l next time around. Also,I'd never even think about a 1/2 Ton Diesel..... More up front cost,higher fuel,inconvienence fueling up (hard to get to pumps) and expensive to repair....No Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Well, I don't have a Tundra (f150) and honestly the only reason I did not buy a CM RW today was due to it not having the option of a 6.5 foot bed. I don't always need the space but I love it for the times I do. OP, offer the 6.5 foot bed and show me where to sign.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
I have been going over this on PUTC and maybe Tundra Headquarters and I want to know about the Tundra's ride.

So my question is one of engineering as I could be wrong but I want an answer. They retuned the shocks right to eliminate some of the harsh ride right well instead of trying to mask the problem better why not solve the problem. Toyota says the rear design of the Tundra is similar to what you would find on an HD with the open c frame that flexes for durability which would require stiff leaf springs and that would be where the harsh ride comes from right. As Tundra squats the least which is a sign of a stiff suspension Squat Test - PickupTrucks.com Special Reports. So why don't they do what is actually found on a semi with open c softer leaf springs with an air suspension. Then I read this today " The RAM 3500 continues with the rear Hotchkiss suspension setup, but will also offer a supplemental air suspension on single rear wheel and dual real wheel setups. Adding the air bags allows the use of softer leaf springs. When needed the air bags automatically fill to level the truck and improve ride and stability." News: Ram HD 6.4 official (UPDATED)

My question is wouldn't they be better off fixing the problem than trying to mask it better? Your interview still makes me think it is still really choppy just a little better than before.
Q: What’s your take on the bed bounce issue; do you think this truck rides better?
The choppy ride in itself, yes it does. We made some improvements. We tuned the suspension. Is our choppy ride completely gone? No it is natural part of a truck. Our competitors have a choppy ride as well.

Q. How does the ride compare to competitors?
I think this truck is better than maybe the #1 selling truck. They changed their calibration and tuned suspension. Not sure why they did, but they did. We added other features like the Aero-Fins stabilizers (located on rear tail light and mirrors). They don’t look like much, but they are really quite surprising. They are just these little small wings that are on there. They look great in the wind tunnel. But, when you actually put them on and start driving more than 45mph you really start noticing.

What it does is it creates turbulence alongside the truck and it helps with straight line stability of the truck itself. The air is pushing and instead of becoming detached from the truck, it is pulling air alongside the truck and it helps stabilize the front. The ones on the back creates a downdraft which helps with the choppy ride as well.
Q&A with Mike Sweers, Toyota Chief Engineer for Tundra and Tacoma | Tundra Headquarters Blog
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,255 Posts
I don't understand the thought that the factory in San Antonio, Tx is running at 50-60% of capacity. I have spoken with about a dozen automotive reps from Ford, GM, Ram and Toyota. They all say the plant is 100% at capacity.
Are we talking about installed capacity, or are we talking about specific product build capacity? Very different in my view. Do you want a micro or macro review on where I see it? When I cannot fill the factory with sufficient orders to meet installed capacity on a specific product, time for other steps. Introduce quick change/insert type tooling to reduce MTBF, improve OEE, improve effective utilization. My comment is about a specific element of the equation, which is the Tundra.

The Tundra was projected to meet min of 200Ku annual target sales. I can provide the PR release, the prospectus, and more if you want to see it. The fact that factory is running better than 80% capacity is good for Toyota. The fact that factory is only building 50% of the units on the Tundra platform is the fact. Not debating with you, just stating some basic facts. They can frame the data anyway they want, but, bottom line, is bottom line. Ask any insider or supplier into the base. Hint....I know.

Also, I have not only seen the 2014 up close, I have sat in it and took photos of it. Not sure where you get the thought that "NO one has seen" it yet.
-Tim
My mistake. Should have added more words. MOST people have NOT see the 3G in person. The promo and specs said it all, so is that good enough?

Don't forget, that the Tacoma is being built in that same factory now. Yes, when it was just the Tundra, it was running at 50%. Now, with the Tacoma, no way.
-Tim

See above. The marketing/investment strategy was NOT to have Taco pick up the slack for lost 1/2 ton sales. The expectation was....Tundra would fill the factory.

I am not trying to stir the pot or be a jerk in this discussion. I would like to think, educated folk can have a educated discussion, and come away with the same conclusion,
even if we agree, to disagree.

The Tundra is a great product, but, Toyota has a lot to learn about the truck market. Nothing more, simply business.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
Discussion Starter #94
I have been going over this on PUTC and maybe Tundra Headquarters and I want to know about the Tundra's ride.

So my question is one of engineering as I could be wrong but I want an answer. They retuned the shocks right to eliminate some of the harsh ride right well instead of trying to mask the problem better why not solve the problem. Toyota says the rear design of the Tundra is similar to what you would find on an HD with the open c frame that flexes for durability which would require stiff leaf springs and that would be where the harsh ride comes from right. As Tundra squats the least which is a sign of a stiff suspension Squat Test - PickupTrucks.com Special Reports. So why don't they do what is actually found on a semi with open c softer leaf springs with an air suspension. Then I read this today " The RAM 3500 continues with the rear Hotchkiss suspension setup, but will also offer a supplemental air suspension on single rear wheel and dual real wheel setups. Adding the air bags allows the use of softer leaf springs. When needed the air bags automatically fill to level the truck and improve ride and stability." News: Ram HD 6.4 official (UPDATED)

My question is wouldn't they be better off fixing the problem than trying to mask it better? Your interview still makes me think it is still really choppy just a little better than before.
Q: What’s your take on the bed bounce issue; do you think this truck rides better?
The choppy ride in itself, yes it does. We made some improvements. We tuned the suspension. Is our choppy ride completely gone? No it is natural part of a truck. Our competitors have a choppy ride as well.

Q. How does the ride compare to competitors?
I think this truck is better than maybe the #1 selling truck. They changed their calibration and tuned suspension. Not sure why they did, but they did. We added other features like the Aero-Fins stabilizers (located on rear tail light and mirrors). They don’t look like much, but they are really quite surprising. They are just these little small wings that are on there. They look great in the wind tunnel. But, when you actually put them on and start driving more than 45mph you really start noticing.

What it does is it creates turbulence alongside the truck and it helps with straight line stability of the truck itself. The air is pushing and instead of becoming detached from the truck, it is pulling air alongside the truck and it helps stabilize the front. The ones on the back creates a downdraft which helps with the choppy ride as well.
Q&A with Mike Sweers, Toyota Chief Engineer for Tundra and Tacoma | Tundra Headquarters Blog
That is an educated and insightful question that I frankly don't have any answer to. I have, though, passed it on to some smarter people than me. If they can't answer it, I'll pass it along to my Toyota contacts.

Why pass it on? I'm thinking the answer is either pretty simple or incredibly complex and would be better to get answered prior to the event.

-Tim
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,933 Posts
The Tundra is a great product, but, Toyota has a lot to learn about the FULL SIZE truck market. Nothing more, simply business.
Fixed.

Don't think the Tacoma has much competition. Maybe a Nissan Nisimo?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,255 Posts
Fixed.

Don't think the Tacoma has much competition. Maybe a Nissan Nisimo?
The Taco is best in class for that segment. Toyota got that element right IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
Discussion Starter #97
See above. The marketing/investment strategy was NOT to have Taco pick up the slack for lost 1/2 ton sales. The expectation was....Tundra would fill the factory.

I am not trying to stir the pot or be a jerk in this discussion. I would like to think, educated folk can have a educated discussion, and come away with the same conclusion,
even if we agree, to disagree.

The Tundra is a great product, but, Toyota has a lot to learn about the truck market. Nothing more, simply business.
I believe my contacts are talking about specific build quality. FYI - my father, one of my sources, was a plant manager at a full-size assembly plant.

I absolutely agree that the projections for the Tundra fell short and I absolutely agree that Toyota has learned a LOT from this market. The expectations they had at the time, just weren't reasonable. Now, I do cut them some slack with the Tsunami and the recession, however, sales weren't close to 200k prior to those events and haven't been close since.

My thought is this and it is based on meeting with their engineer in Chicago and seeing the executives of Ram, Ford and GM in Detroit. Toyota is going to be one of the top trucks on the market for years to come. Here's why. The Toyota Engineering team is young, real young and they are eager to piss off Ford, GM and Ram by outselling them. I'm thinking every time the sales reports come out, either they get pissed or they go out for drinks. They are committed to building a winner.

Ford is like a fat cat. They don't feel touchable and they are smug about it. The first statement from them is always, "Do you know who has sold the most full-size trucks for 36 consecutive years? That's right it is us."

GM is a bunch of old, scared white guys. They got their pension ripped out from under them and they saw all their best buds get canned. GM made a ton of poor decisions and they know it. They got bailed out AND they know it. A GM guy told me point blank, "The past was bad and those who are left have made their own peace with it." They don't want to provide innovation or a great selling truck - they WANT to make a profit. They don't really care about being #1. They just need some moolah.

Ram guys are like the guys who didn't quite fit in at Ford or GM. They are young and ambitious with no regard to making mistakes. Look at ex-Ceo Diaz. That guy was a young executive who won truck of the year, then left for more money. Remember Ram's reputation of poor quality. It's because they don't stay around long enough to see things through. Look, I LOVE the new Ram truck. I think it looks sharp and has some cool features. Ask a Toyota guy about the new features and why Toyota doesn't offer them, you will get a smirk. Toyota's response, "Let's see how those gimmicks work in 10 years of off-roading, towing and beating the crud out of your truck." I tend to agree with Toyota.

Look, you can nick Toyota for a poor sales calculation and for making mundane decisions, but I like talking to them and driving their products. To me, they aren't that sexy, but damn if they don't generally last forever, hold their resale value and start up every day.

Sure, there are exceptions to this, but I think for a high majority the above is the case.

FYI - I love educated discussions/debates. :lol5:

-Tim
 

·
Spooge Guzzler
Joined
·
6,318 Posts
I'm not sure what the offerings are for 2014, but the only color options for cloth seat interiors has been tan or gray. Except the rock warrior, which comes with black cloth and carpet.
I don't think it's too much to ask for black to be a 3rd color option for all tundra models. It looks sharp and many folks like it.
And they already make it. The only thing they would have to make new is a larger carpet and rear seat covers for the crewmax. They may already make a black carpet for the crewmax, for trucks with black leather, no?
Anyway, it would be nice. And it's an easy one.
 
81 - 100 of 259 Posts
Top