Suspension questions, brain is fried and need some more insight - TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-07-2017, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Portland,OR
Posts: 126
Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Suspension questions, brain is fried and need some more insight

Alright guys, I have been researching what I want to do for the past few weeks and have come to the point where I am not turning to you guys to help push me in the right direction now with the questions I have. I want to make sure I do this once and do it right.

What I want from the lift:
* looking at fitting 35's with the 18x9 Method Mesh wheels +18
* Truck is mostly on the pavement about 80-85% of the time, the other 15-20% is going on logging roads, beach driving, driving through snow up here in the PNW.
* looking at achieving a 3" lift

Questions:

1. Do I need reservoirs for the amount of off-road driving I do?

1a. If I have a rear shock with remote reservoir, should I get the front with a remote reservoir as well? What are my options for a front with remote resi?

2. Should I add a new rear shackle? If so what size from coachbuilder?

3. If im going to do this right the first time, I am assuming I should get a new UCA. I was looking at either the Total Chaos or the Camburg. What do you suggest and why?

4. Do I need to add a CB shim to the driver side for the gangster lean that we have?

Lifts I have been looking at:

1. Bilstein 6112 fronts with 5160 rear w/ remote resi (If I go this route what are my options to get the fronts with a remote resi as well?

2. Fox 2.5 front coils and fox 2.0 rear w/o remote resi
http://camburg.com/shop/suspension/c...mance-2-5-kit/


Any help from you guys is much appreciated. I want to try and get this all done before December as we are expecting another fun year of SNOW in the PNW!!
ScikoticTundra is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-07-2017, 10:43 PM
Senior Member
 
xtyfighterx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: cda idaho
Posts: 1,440
Thanks: 1
Thanked 253 Times in 223 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Garage
I have 2.5 fox remote resi with 2.0 remote resi Rear love my set up 1in shackle in the back. Still waiting to get extra cash for ucas.

You don’t need resis tho if you don’t really plan on off roading the truck.(I got a crazy deal on mine that’s why I have them)
+2 coach builder shackle should be nice with 3in up front
You won’t need cb shims with coilovers but with 6112s you will, to get that one side more even with the other.

Also in the PNW.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

|Blacked out| |Color matched| |Fox 2.5 resi coilovers| |Fox 2.0 resi shocks| |Coachbuilder shims| |Method grid wheels| |295 70 18 trail grapplers| |Pro grill| |32in light bar| |Weathertechs| |TRD rear sway bar| |D2s retrofit| |Relentless bed bars/cargo spare tire setup| |smittybillt rtt| |ARB 1250 awning||Led bulb swap|
Black TC #391
MY BUILD

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xtyfighterx is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-07-2017, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Portland,OR
Posts: 126
Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtyfighterx View Post
I have 2.5 fox remote resi with 2.0 remote resi Rear love my set up 1in shackle in the back. Still waiting to get extra cash for ucas.

You donít need resis tho if you donít really plan on off roading the truck.(I got a crazy deal on mine thatís why I have them)
+2 coach builder shackle should be nice with 3in up front
You wonít need cb shims with coilovers but with 6112s you will, to get that one side more even with the other.

Also in the PNW.
Thanks for the input. I think I am leaning more towards the Fox 2.5/2.0 with resi's only cause every now and then I do get a little more crazy on the off-road fun and would be nice to not have to worry about my suspension while doing it. Im just gonna wait for a great deal more towards christmas time and get both Fox setups along with either the Camburg UCA or Total Chaos UCA along with the CB shackle in the back. I think that is a pretty bulletproof setup right there to tackle everything and plus some for where I go.
ScikoticTundra is offline  
 
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 07:24 AM
Senior Member
 
GR8White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 764
Thanks: 192
Thanked 282 Times in 227 Posts
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Garage
If you have rough winters I'd also talk to Matt @M C M fab and look into ADS shocks. The shocks have great corrosion protection and Matt will valve them however you want when you order them. Matt also has his own upper control arms which pretty much mirror the Total Chaos arms. However, the ADS only come with remote reservoirs front and rear because their oem stuff is built off their race stuff. I just had Matt revalve all mine after a little over a year of driving and figuring out what I wanted and I can tell you I am completely satisfied at this point with spending the money that I did.

With the setups you are considering above. If doing 6112's, don't worry about ucas unless adding shims and if you did, do total chaos. And to really save some money just do a 5100 rear since that's all a 5160 is but with a remote reservoir.

I'd run the fox if you're willing to go that high. With the fox, I'd still run a total chaos uca instead of camburg. They're uniballs are pretty bulletproof when it comes to corrosion...(MCM fabs ucas use the same uniballs). Also, just consider, with fox, you sometimes have to grind a little bit of your lca around the lower shock mount to make room at full droop.

However, with rough winters and crap on the roads, I suggest covering whatever you get with some fluid film before hand.

2012 RW DC. ADS Coilovers and Piggybacks, MCM Fab UCA's, CB +3ís, 305/70/17 Nitto Terra Grappler G2's, full audio system

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GR8White is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to GR8White For This Useful Post:
Jonnyope (10-12-2017)
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Portland,OR
Posts: 126
Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Im up here in the PNW so we dont like to use salt on our roads cause we are huge environmentalists that would rather cause havoc in the city than let people get around properly. Also what size shackle would I need (I am assuming a +2 from CB)?
ScikoticTundra is offline  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 11:31 AM
Senior Member
 
xtyfighterx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: cda idaho
Posts: 1,440
Thanks: 1
Thanked 253 Times in 223 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Garage
Total chaos ucas for me as well. Check my build out I’m 3in up front 1in shackle in the rear I think it sits perfect and. I have the fox 2.5/2.0 setup. +2 shackles will be perfect if you go 3in.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

|Blacked out| |Color matched| |Fox 2.5 resi coilovers| |Fox 2.0 resi shocks| |Coachbuilder shims| |Method grid wheels| |295 70 18 trail grapplers| |Pro grill| |32in light bar| |Weathertechs| |TRD rear sway bar| |D2s retrofit| |Relentless bed bars/cargo spare tire setup| |smittybillt rtt| |ARB 1250 awning||Led bulb swap|
Black TC #391
MY BUILD

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
xtyfighterx is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 11:38 AM
Senior Member
 
GR8White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 764
Thanks: 192
Thanked 282 Times in 227 Posts
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScikoticTundra View Post
Im up here in the PNW so we dont like to use salt on our roads cause we are huge environmentalists that would rather cause havoc in the city than let people get around properly. Also what size shackle would I need (I am assuming a +2 from CB)?
I did the icon leaf pack and planned to add CB +1's but the icon pack gave me more lift than they state and I don't want to go any higher in the rear. If I were to do this all over again I would install my fronts and let them settle and then decide on a shackle for the rear. Just my opinion...

2012 RW DC. ADS Coilovers and Piggybacks, MCM Fab UCA's, CB +3ís, 305/70/17 Nitto Terra Grappler G2's, full audio system

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GR8White is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 03:54 PM
Senior Member
 
rruff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Ruidoso, NM
Posts: 1,151
Thanks: 224
Thanked 385 Times in 308 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 469 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScikoticTundra View Post
What I want from the lift:
* looking at fitting 35's with the 18x9 Method Mesh wheels +18
* Truck is mostly on the pavement about 80-85% of the time, the other 15-20% is going on logging roads, beach driving, driving through snow up here in the PNW.
* looking at achieving a 3" lift
Strut lifts do not increase clearance when you hit bumps with wheels turned. It you want to avoid rubbing then, you'll need to make the same clearance regardless of your strut lift. +18 is not ideal offset for minimizing what you have to mod. +35 would be a lot better. If you are set on +18 then 295/70r18s are a good size to minimize the chance of needing to chop the body mount.

18 inch rims, ~35", normalized to 9" width:
295/70r18 (~34.3x12.0)
285/75r18 (~34.8x11.7)
305/70r18 (~35.1x12.6)
35x12.5r18(~34.6x12.1)
325/65r18 (~34.6x12.8)

You'll save money and get better performance with a 2" lift. With anything higher you'll need UCAs to get *good* alignment and a differential drop and rear lift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScikoticTundra View Post
4. Do I need to add a CB shim to the driver side for the gangster lean that we have?

1. Bilstein 6112 fronts with 5160 rear w/ remote resi (If I go this route what are my options to get the fronts with a remote resi as well?
I think the shim is a good idea.

Reservoirs increase volume to prevent overheating on long high speed bumpy roads. I don't think you'd notice a difference. 6112s are an excellent choice up front (set 1 from top), but I'd go with 5100s rear. The 5160s only have a 90 day warranty, and perform the same as 5100s unless you get in that overheating situation.

There is a good case to be made for poly bushings on the lower shackle pivot. You only need new shackles if you want to add lift. Coach shackles are a work of art, but Toytec's 1-1.5" shackles are very stout also.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2016 SR DC Long 4x4 5.7L. Intermittent wipers added (?!). MB TKO 18x9 +25. Hankook Dynapro ATM 325/65r18 (34.6x13) Future Offroad RV plans: Bed removed, homebuilt camper installed. Rear seat removed to make room for storage and bikes. King or ADS shocks with 700 lb springs, ~2" lift (may cheap out though). Rear leaves, maybe air bags. And more!
rruff is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2017, 12:52 PM
Member
 
OliverB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 92
Thanks: 19
Thanked 24 Times in 19 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Suspension questions, brain is fried and need some more insight

If you are doing 2.5 in front might as well do 2.5 in rear. I had fox 2.0 in rear and it wasn't much of a difference from OEM. Another thing to consider is new leafs for overall better ride on and off road.


SoCal 2014 MT Tundra

Have Fun
OliverB is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2017, 01:32 PM
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Luminoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 51
Thanks: 5
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Garage
I've got 35" Falken MT01's on my truck with Icon Alloy Six Speed wheels in 17x8.5 at +25. Icon specifically developed that wheel to clear 35s on the Tundra.

Questions:

1. Do I need reservoirs for the amount of off-road driving I do?

No.

1a. If I have a rear shock with remote reservoir, should I get the front with a remote reservoir as well? What are my options for a front with remote resi?

There are quite a few. Fox, King, Bilstein, OME, IVD (what I have)

2. Should I add a new rear shackle? If so what size from coachbuilder?

I'm a big fan of the Icon Leaf Expansion Pack. Add's about 1.5" and looks great with 35's.

3. If im going to do this right the first time, I am assuming I should get a new UCA. I was looking at either the Total Chaos or the Camburg. What do you suggest and why?

Icon With Delta Joint. Because the delta joint > any Uniball.

4. Do I need to add a CB shim to the driver side for the gangster lean that we have?

Height adjustable Coilovers will let you get a level stance.

I've got an all Icon setup on my truck and I couldn't be happier with it. I'm in Colorado / AZ so I do everything from desert to rocky mountains in winter.
Luminoz is offline  
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2017, 01:46 PM
Senior Member
 
rruff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Ruidoso, NM
Posts: 1,151
Thanks: 224
Thanked 385 Times in 308 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 469 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminoz View Post
Icon specifically developed that wheel to clear 35s on the Tundra.
Think they would have done +35 or +40 and made the bore fit the Tundra bore if they were *specifically* made for the Tundra and maximizing clearance.

I like your rear leaf idea.

I wonder if preload adjustment is the best way to account for lean? Maybe. The 6112s he was thinking about can accomodate that as well. Making the strut a little longer with a shim should ride smoother on the street though.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2016 SR DC Long 4x4 5.7L. Intermittent wipers added (?!). MB TKO 18x9 +25. Hankook Dynapro ATM 325/65r18 (34.6x13) Future Offroad RV plans: Bed removed, homebuilt camper installed. Rear seat removed to make room for storage and bikes. King or ADS shocks with 700 lb springs, ~2" lift (may cheap out though). Rear leaves, maybe air bags. And more!
rruff is offline  
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2017, 04:15 PM
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Luminoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 51
Thanks: 5
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Think they would have done +35 or +40 and made the bore fit the Tundra bore if they were *specifically* made for the Tundra and maximizing clearance.
Call 'em and ask em. "Maximizing" clearance isn't the objective here, as if you go too far away from one part (the UCA) you start pushing the tire into other things, like your cab mounts and stock bumper (if you're still running one.) +25 is plenty of clearance for a 12.50 tire and UCAs. Extra offset is just increasing the seam load on your wheel bearings and the amount of rocks you're peppering your paint with as a function of your tire sticking out more. 17's fit just fine and an extra half inch of sidewall is just that much more suspension. 35's certainly would NOT fit on my truck without doing a CMC if I had +35 or +40 wheels.

With the Icon system you can clear 35x12.50's with one inch of lift and have everything aligned to factory specs.

It took me one turn of additional preload on my driver's side to level my truck, FWIW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
I wonder if preload adjustment is the best way to account for lean? Maybe. The 6112s he was thinking about can accomodate that as well. Making the strut a little longer with a shim should ride smoother on the street though.
Disagree. Adding preload is the correct way to do it. We're working with linear rate springs here, and we certainly don't want to whack out suspension geometry by making the coilover longer, which can cause suspension bind, change your bump to droop, etc. etc.

It's also way easier to compress the spring installed on the truck and give the preload ring a spin than have to shoehorn a shim into place. This is precisely why we have threaded shock bodies. Notice how all suspension manufactures make threaded bodies, but they don't sell shims that go on top of your CO. OME shims are just like adding preload with a threaded adjuster too.

Just my two cents.

Last edited by Luminoz; 10-10-2017 at 05:24 PM.
Luminoz is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2017, 05:04 PM
Senior Member
 
GR8White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 764
Thanks: 192
Thanked 282 Times in 227 Posts
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminoz View Post
Call 'em and ask em. "Maximizing" clearance isn't the objective here, as if you go too far away from one part (the UCA) you start pushing the tire into other things, like your cab mounts and stock bumper (if you're still running one.) +25 is plenty of clearance for a 12.50 tire and UCAs. Extra offset is just increasing the seam load on your bearings and the amount of rocks your peppering your paint with as a function of your tire sticking out more. 17's fit just fine and an extra half inch of sidewall is just that much more suspension. 35's certainly would NOT fit on my truck without doing a CMC if I had +35 or +40 wheels.
This I don't understand if you can fit a 35" on a stock +50 RW wheel...

2012 RW DC. ADS Coilovers and Piggybacks, MCM Fab UCA's, CB +3ís, 305/70/17 Nitto Terra Grappler G2's, full audio system

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GR8White is offline  
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2017, 05:31 PM
Premium Member
Premium Member
 
Luminoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 51
Thanks: 5
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by GR8White View Post
This I don't understand if you can fit a 35" on a stock +50 RW wheel...
Notice the word "MY" appears in that statement you highlighted in blue.

I know for a fact that MY TRUCK, (as in this may not work on yours because of manufacturing inconsistencies, aftermarket parts, alignment settings, the exact size of a given 35" tire (my Falken MT01's may be bigger / smaller than X brand 35" tire)) clears my tires everywhere the suspension can go. That means steering lock to steering lock, at full bump and full droop without ANY rubbing.

I think it's very important to remember that just because someone said "I fit X size tire with Y model of wheels" (so we'll say a 35x12.50 on the RW wheels for example) we're not talking apples to apples unless we know they're clearing lock to lock at full bump and droop without any rubbing. We also don't know what if anything they had to do to make said tire clear. Did they CMC? take the plastic mud flap off? We also don't know what alignment specs. they're running. If they've got adjustable UCAs, they can cam the lower arms forward, and get more clearance...

So in short, on MY TRUCK, I would get rubbing on my cab mount if I was rubbing +50s but that's just how I have it setup. I'm sure there are tons of guys out there running 35's on the RW wheels, and I'd be willing to bet that some of them get rub, and some of them don't because of lift, alignment, parts, you get the idea...

I was just trying to make the point that the +25 the Icon has on their wheels is what their R&D came up with as the best setup.

I hope that makes sense.

Last edited by Luminoz; 10-10-2017 at 05:44 PM.
Luminoz is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-10-2017, 07:32 PM
Senior Member
 
rruff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Ruidoso, NM
Posts: 1,151
Thanks: 224
Thanked 385 Times in 308 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 469 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminoz View Post
Call 'em and ask em. "Maximizing" clearance isn't the objective here, as if you go too far away from one part (the UCA) you start pushing the tire into other things, like your cab mounts and stock bumper (if you're still running one.) +25 is plenty of clearance for a 12.50 tire and UCAs. Extra offset is just increasing the seam load on your wheel bearings and the amount of rocks you're peppering your paint with as a function of your tire sticking out more. 17's fit just fine and an extra half inch of sidewall is just that much more suspension. 35's certainly would NOT fit on my truck without doing a CMC if I had +35 or +40 wheels.
You have it backward. Higher offset is more tucked. Stock is +60.

+35 or +40 will be enough to miss the UCA even with 13" width tires. You might hit the skidplate but that is very easy to fix. The other issue with being tucked is that you might rub the swaybar. But if you are offroading a lot, you'll take that off anyway. As you mentioned, the more your tires stick out the more you will hit the bumper, plastic, and body mount. +35 or +40 is the sweet spot for the biggest tires with minimal mods. That offset is pretty rare though.

I like the 17s also, which is why I was looking at the Icon Six speeds. I think the 315/70r17 size is perfect for Tundras, with good pricing and availability. The lack of hub centering is what turned me off. I got nice 18s that were hub centered for half the price.

Quote:
Disagree. Adding preload is the correct way to do it. We're working with linear rate springs here, and we certainly don't want to whack out suspension geometry by making the coilover longer, which can cause suspension bind, change your bump to droop, etc. etc.
For offroad use I'd agree (because of droop), but using preload to raise the truck will make the ride harsher than making the strut longer. For a given lift the best ride will be a combination of the two. The shim is super easy, you just put it on top when you install the strut.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2016 SR DC Long 4x4 5.7L. Intermittent wipers added (?!). MB TKO 18x9 +25. Hankook Dynapro ATM 325/65r18 (34.6x13) Future Offroad RV plans: Bed removed, homebuilt camper installed. Rear seat removed to make room for storage and bikes. King or ADS shocks with 700 lb springs, ~2" lift (may cheap out though). Rear leaves, maybe air bags. And more!
rruff is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum > Tundra Discussion > Tundra Suspension Talk

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome