Brake Bleeding, ABS- Actuator-Techstream HELP!! - Page 3 - TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-21-2018, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 366
Thanks: 34
Thanked 278 Times in 178 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundance View Post
That not uncommon to happen. You should probably have cracked the bleed value to push the piston back in.

Did you bleed that caliper immediately after getting it back together?

This might sound silly but did you happen to use ceramic pads? Ceramic pad don't have the initial bite that semi metallic pads have. You're going to use more pressure on a ceramic pad.


Yep! Bled immediately, Yep Ceramic pads. Ran another bottle of fluid through the lines last night, thought I was getting air out of one of the rears but Iím pretty sure it was just sucking around the threads while I was gravity bleeding. I put some grease around it and it stopped. Anyway proceeded with a two man pump, hold,bleed, repeat. NO AIR CAME OUT ANYWHERE?!?
Got to be either:
Trapped air in the ABS
Or
Master Cylinder

Brake pedal action starts a little lower than I think it should but it has plenty of stopping power, although I havenít had to brake in an emergency situation but it will lock up and the ABS kicks in. My biggest issue is if you hold really firmly on the pedal it just slowly sinks to the floor. It takes a fair amount of force but it bottoms out. I know it shouldnít do that!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2012 Tundra CrewMax 4.6 V8 w/tow-package. A.R.E. Z Series

TWAC # 74
WTC # 74



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pas Bon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-21-2018, 06:26 AM
Member
 
Buckaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lewis Center, OH
Posts: 76
Thanks: 14
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pas Bon View Post
My biggest issue is if you hold really firmly on the pedal it just slowly sinks to the floor. It takes a fair amount of force but it bottoms out.
This is the classic symptom of master cylinder bypass (i.e. internal seal leakage) and your right....it shouldn't do that. I have never performed this test but seems to me it should definitively prove if the issue is the MC...



NAPA replacement MC for 2012 Tundra specs M12 x 1.0 port size....
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NMBP3875

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find the M12 x 1.0 plugs anywhere except in the Thexton 803P Kit....you might have to fabricate some. Might be able to use M12 x 1.0 bolt with a few wraps of teflon tape but be careful about tightenting - you don't want to damage the internal shoulder profile on the MC port.
https://www.tooltopia.com/thexton-803p.aspx

Buckaroo

Buckaroo
- 2017 Limited Tundra DC 5.7L 4WD
- 2017 XLE Camry 2.5L
- 2010 Mazda Mx-5 Touring
- 2004 EX Accord 2.4L
- 2002 XLE Camry 2.4L
- 2000 4Runner 3.4L 4WD

Last edited by Buckaroo; 09-21-2018 at 07:46 AM.
Buckaroo is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Buckaroo For This Useful Post:
Pas Bon (09-21-2018)
post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-21-2018, 07:55 AM
Member
 
Buckaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lewis Center, OH
Posts: 76
Thanks: 14
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shasta View Post
The compressed air powered mighty vac is a godsend for these sorts of things. It was money well spent. Even if just for flushing brake fluid every few years. I'm probably the only human that does it regularly....so easy with the right tool.
I am right with you - try to flush it every two years on all the cars I maintain. The tool makes all the difference.

Buckaroo

Buckaroo
- 2017 Limited Tundra DC 5.7L 4WD
- 2017 XLE Camry 2.5L
- 2010 Mazda Mx-5 Touring
- 2004 EX Accord 2.4L
- 2002 XLE Camry 2.4L
- 2000 4Runner 3.4L 4WD
Buckaroo is offline  
 
post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-21-2018, 08:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,975
Thanks: 349
Thanked 647 Times in 486 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pas Bon View Post
Yep! Bled immediately, Yep Ceramic pads. Ran another bottle of fluid through the lines last night, thought I was getting air out of one of the rears but Iím pretty sure it was just sucking around the threads while I was gravity bleeding. I put some grease around it and it stopped. Anyway proceeded with a two man pump, hold,bleed, repeat. NO AIR CAME OUT ANYWHERE?!?
Got to be either:
Trapped air in the ABS
Or
Master Cylinder

Brake pedal action starts a little lower than I think it should but it has plenty of stopping power, although I havenít had to brake in an emergency situation but it will lock up and the ABS kicks in. My biggest issue is if you hold really firmly on the pedal it just slowly sinks to the floor. It takes a fair amount of force but it bottoms out. I know it shouldnít do that!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When you say "starts a little lower than I think it should but it has plenty of stopping power", this is exactly what you get from ceramic pads. As they heat up they really gain in performance. The initial "bite" is just not there. Which is one of the reason I believe that most manufacturers have never went to using ceramic pads on all their vehicles.

It definitely shouldn't go to floor as you hold it. Which like Buckaroo said.... is as classic sign of a MC issue. Just sounds really odd to me at your mileage. Was the old fluid really dirty or rusty?
sundance is offline  
post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-21-2018, 10:16 AM
Senior Member
 
purplenova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 365
Thanks: 55
Thanked 78 Times in 67 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pas Bon View Post
So in doing my recent brake job I managed to pop one of the pistons out of a front caliper (long story but none the less it happened) subsequently I'm pretty sure my brake fluid reservoir got low enough to suck air in from the top. Put it all back together bled the brakes. soft mushy pedal going to the floor.......bled the brakes, bled the brakes, etc etc etc. SOFT PEDAL and it goes to the floor if you hold it and push with a little more than average force. So everything I read say's hook it up to Techstream, and get the program to cycle the ABS pump or you'll never get the air out. OR.. Take it to the dealership.

I don't have techstream, what is involved in getting it? I have heard Toyota reps say, if you buy a cable and CD off of ebay, That is not our product. I have also heard it's a real booger to install on a P.C..

What do ya'll say?

No way to get the air out without techstream?

Buy Techstream off Ebay and install it...piece of cake?

cross-posted

Thanks!
This thread should have everything you need to know about TIS
https://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tu...ings-such.html

2016 SR5 CrewMax 4x4

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Other Vehicles:
2011 - SR5 Crewmax Silver Sky Metallic
2015 - Black RAV4 XLE AWD
2003 - Suzuki Volusia
purplenova is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to purplenova For This Useful Post:
Pas Bon (09-21-2018)
post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-25-2018, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 366
Thanks: 34
Thanked 278 Times in 178 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundance View Post
When you say "starts a little lower than I think it should but it has plenty of stopping power", this is exactly what you get from ceramic pads. As they heat up they really gain in performance. The initial "bite" is just not there. Which is one of the reason I believe that most manufacturers have never went to using ceramic pads on all their vehicles.



It definitely shouldn't go to floor as you hold it. Which like Buckaroo said.... is as classic sign of a MC issue. Just sounds really odd to me at your mileage. Was the old fluid really dirty or rusty?


Nope fluid looked good, plan on isolating the MC tomorrow, plugging the ports and giving it a try.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2012 Tundra CrewMax 4.6 V8 w/tow-package. A.R.E. Z Series

TWAC # 74
WTC # 74



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pas Bon is offline  
post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-26-2018, 08:14 AM
Senior Member
Premium Member
 
RIjon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 4,609
Thanks: 5,289
Thanked 6,092 Times in 2,794 Posts
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
The only thing that made my pedal feel “firm” was putting on stainless lines. All the spongy went away.

08 RCSB B00STED
10 T4R

Last edited by RIjon; 09-28-2018 at 05:46 AM. Reason: Ghfjfsejgtu
RIjon is offline  
post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 366
Thanks: 34
Thanked 278 Times in 178 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Well!! I isolated the master cylinder by plugging the ports and the pedal would not budge, it was tight and up to the top. SO IT IS NOT THE MASTER CYLINDER!! Got to be air in the ABS or in the lines somewhere but with all the bleeding I did it's gotta be in the ABS block

2012 Tundra CrewMax 4.6 V8 w/tow-package. A.R.E. Z Series

TWAC # 74
WTC # 74



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pas Bon is offline  
post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 07:20 AM
Member
 
Buckaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lewis Center, OH
Posts: 76
Thanks: 14
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Even though you are still looking for the solution, the work to verify the master cylinder is good was needed and well done. What did you use for plugs?

Just blue skying but maybe you could get out in some gravel, activate the ABS a few times and then bleed at the wheels again.

Buckaroo

Buckaroo
- 2017 Limited Tundra DC 5.7L 4WD
- 2017 XLE Camry 2.5L
- 2010 Mazda Mx-5 Touring
- 2004 EX Accord 2.4L
- 2002 XLE Camry 2.4L
- 2000 4Runner 3.4L 4WD
Buckaroo is offline  
post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 366
Thanks: 34
Thanked 278 Times in 178 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
Even though you are still looking for the solution, the work to verify the master cylinder is good was needed and well done. What did you use for plugs?

Just blue skying but maybe you could get out in some gravel, activate the ABS a few times and then bleed at the wheels again.

Buckaroo

I got some M12X1.0 brake line fittings from NAPA and plugged the female end with a small bolt . I had to modify them in the drill press to get them to seat far enough to get enough threads to bite and seal, as well as use some teflon tape. It wasn't as simple as I thought it would be but it worked.

I've tried the sliding it on the grass several times and while it sounds like a good idea the more I thought of it the more I realized that the fluid doesn't really move (distance wise) very far in the lines, it cant unless there is a leak, so I'm not sure how it could move air out of a particular spot in the system. I really think you HAVE TO actuate to the ABS/VSC and possibly the as well while bleeding the system to get the air to move on down the the line and finally out of a bleeder.

So now I am looking for the least expensive scan tool that will perform an auto bleed or I'm taking it to a shop that has the tool and asking them to perform the service for me. Obviously my local Toyota Stealership is of no help.

2012 Tundra CrewMax 4.6 V8 w/tow-package. A.R.E. Z Series

TWAC # 74
WTC # 74



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pas Bon is offline  
post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 09:39 AM
Member
 
Buckaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lewis Center, OH
Posts: 76
Thanks: 14
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Interested how it turns out...keep us posted.

Folks buy those Techstream clones on Ebay which are bi-directional. They are cheap and there is a good thread in the electrical section which someone posted a link to on your thread - could work for you. I have avoided the need for bi-directional control so far but will have to do it sooner or later - don't want to do the clone myself as I would like to be able to do ecu updates and that would scare me with the clone. I have been considering the Mongoose Cable + TIS subscription, Auto Enginuity with the Asian Extended Pkg or one of the Autel offerings....following site has a fair number of options and ok prices....

https://www.aeswave.com/

Buckaroo

Buckaroo
- 2017 Limited Tundra DC 5.7L 4WD
- 2017 XLE Camry 2.5L
- 2010 Mazda Mx-5 Touring
- 2004 EX Accord 2.4L
- 2002 XLE Camry 2.4L
- 2000 4Runner 3.4L 4WD
Buckaroo is offline  
post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 366
Thanks: 34
Thanked 278 Times in 178 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Well I tried something different tonight, I jacked up the rear end and took the tires/wheels off. Cracked open the bleeder and put it in gear and let the truck think it was slipping and actuate the VSC. I did this multiple time on both sides and bled bled bled! No joy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2012 Tundra CrewMax 4.6 V8 w/tow-package. A.R.E. Z Series

TWAC # 74
WTC # 74



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Pas Bon is offline  
post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 08:47 AM
Member
 
Buckaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lewis Center, OH
Posts: 76
Thanks: 14
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Even though I suggested activating the VSC to purge the air, I would think the advantage of the system purge performed by the ECU is that it pulses all the channels. When you manipulate it the way you did (which was a good approach - better than my gravel slide idea), it doesn't sound like you activated the front wheel channels.

Another blue sky thought - could one of your flexible brake lines have been damaged/kinked (like on the wheel where you where your issue occured) and it is swelling when pressure is applied and then contracting? A very small amount of fluid actually moves when you depress the brake pedal.

Buckaroo

Buckaroo
- 2017 Limited Tundra DC 5.7L 4WD
- 2017 XLE Camry 2.5L
- 2010 Mazda Mx-5 Touring
- 2004 EX Accord 2.4L
- 2002 XLE Camry 2.4L
- 2000 4Runner 3.4L 4WD
Buckaroo is offline  
post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central Louisiana
Posts: 366
Thanks: 34
Thanked 278 Times in 178 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
Even though I suggested activating the VSC to purge the air, I would think the advantage of the system purge performed by the ECU is that it pulses all the channels. When you manipulate it the way you did (which was a good approach - better than my gravel slide idea), it doesn't sound like you activated the front wheel channels.

Another blue sky thought - could one of your flexible brake lines have been damaged/kinked (like on the wheel where you where your issue occured) and it is swelling when pressure is applied and then contracting? A very small amount of fluid actually moves when you depress the brake pedal.

Buckaroo
YES! Totally agree, I was hoping the air might be able to evacuate the pump via a rear brake line. Not so lucky, the piston that popped out was drivers side front so in all likelihood its in the front line of the ABS block.

I don't think I kinked anything (not 100%) I was real careful and aware of the lines when I was working on them and made sure they were supported. In all the bleeding I've done nothing would indicate any difference among each corner.


I do think I am whittling it down though...Still curios to see what the guy in the other thread finds out.

Bad thing is I just bought a 6,000 lb camper that I have to tow home this week!!

2012 Tundra CrewMax 4.6 V8 w/tow-package. A.R.E. Z Series

TWAC # 74
WTC # 74



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Pas Bon; 09-29-2018 at 11:40 PM.
Pas Bon is offline  
post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 03:12 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,317
Thanks: 428
Thanked 1,541 Times in 1,066 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 557 Post(s)
the bleeders are at the very top of the calipers?
restosud is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum > Tundra Discussion > Tundra Problems: Maintenance, Repair & Dealer/Warranty Issues

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome