Is torque management to blame for such a varied “feeling” of acceleration? - TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum
User Tag List

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Thanks: 3
Thanked 118 Times in 89 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Is torque management to blame for such a varied “feeling” of acceleration?

Right now I am running 91 octane and my Hypertech (w/o pedal thingy). Sometimes the truck will feel like it will go 0~50 so much quicker than at other times. The other day, with the wife/2 kids in the car, I barley beat a a CC Tacoma from like 0-45 mph (it was a cool totally mini truck). My truck’s power felt like it was so much slower than at other times (nannies off in tow/haul).

Not long after I bought the truck, I really wanted a sweet header & exhaust set up (w/cats). Then, being in CA, where long tubes seem not to be an option, I aborted the idea since it seemed there was no worthwhile option in CA.

A supercharger is not even possible.

Would a DAP tune, or other company like it, help here? Is this all TM?


There is one other performance mod I have been thinking about. If I bought OBX long tubes, and had the collector flanges moved upstream as close to the last y-merge as possible, then had a shop make the exhaust, under the car, look as stock as possible with the cats in close-to-stock position as possible, would this most likely pass a visual test? I could even try to the exhaust manifold heat covers to get on there somehow. We all know it would pass the tailpipe test.

Any tips?

Thank you.

2015 SR5, Crew Max, 4x4, 5.7, 4.30's, factory spray-in liner, white w/black interior, Hellwig rear bar, Hypertech, Bilstein 5100’s, middle setting.
Youngfrankenstein is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Thanks: 3
Thanked 118 Times in 89 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
FYI, here is a great thread on the gains of tri-y headers.

https://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tu...e-headers.html

2015 SR5, Crew Max, 4x4, 5.7, 4.30's, factory spray-in liner, white w/black interior, Hellwig rear bar, Hypertech, Bilstein 5100’s, middle setting.
Youngfrankenstein is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-29-2018, 07:33 PM
Member
 
iroh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 84
Thanks: 1
Thanked 46 Times in 38 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Garage
iirc the torque management pulls throttle immediately before shifting and reapplies it after the next gear is engaged. It's there whether the nannies are off or not to make shifts smoother and maybe increase transmission life. However the traction control, if that detects any slip whatsoever, it can pull a LOT of throttle back for 3-4 seconds and it's basically a gimped truck until the throttle comes back on.

If I read right the DAP should remove the TM completely and dial back the sensitivity of the traction control response. Both are nice in inclement weather but less than fun when tryin to get on with business

'16 DC, mostly stock, but with dirtydeeds resonator for factory drone removal.
Tonneau and 255 tires for a *little* mpg, but hey, it's an awesome truck, it can burn the gas
iroh is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Thanks: 3
Thanked 118 Times in 89 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Thanx for sharing iroh. Good info. A bummer is: “it can pull a lot of throttle back for 3-4 seconds.”

2015 SR5, Crew Max, 4x4, 5.7, 4.30's, factory spray-in liner, white w/black interior, Hellwig rear bar, Hypertech, Bilstein 5100’s, middle setting.
Youngfrankenstein is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 09:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SE Idaho
Posts: 618
Thanks: 44
Thanked 338 Times in 222 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by iroh View Post
iirc the torque management pulls throttle immediately before shifting and reapplies it after the next gear is engaged. It's there whether the nannies are off or not to make shifts smoother and maybe increase transmission life. However the traction control, if that detects any slip whatsoever, it can pull a LOT of throttle back for 3-4 seconds and it's basically a gimped truck until the throttle comes back on.

If I read right the DAP should remove the TM completely and dial back the sensitivity of the traction control response. Both are nice in inclement weather but less than fun when tryin to get on with business
My understanding of torque management is that it has more to do with limiting the amount of power the truck will make under certain conditions - specifically in 1st and 2nd gear. This is done for several reasons, but mostly prolong the life of parts like transmission internals, u joints, ring and pinion, etc, as well as making the truck less of a handful to drive in those lower gears especially while turning and in inclement weather.

Multiply 401 lb ft by 1st gear (3.333) times the rear gears (4.30) and you have nearly 6,000 lb ft of torque to the wheels as you blow past 3,600 RPM in first gear. Surely that is plenty to break the tires free in most situations. If you power brake it from a standstill, the converter will let the engine RPM up to about 2,000, where it is still making over 300 lb ft, and you are putting 4330 lb ft of torque to the tires once you let off the brakes (ok, ok, really that's how much torque is being put to the rear axle shafts; once you put the tire on, it's a bit less than that because of the radius of the wheel, but you get the point).

Also, because of the way transmissions work with planetary gear sets and such, you can place a lot of load on individual components in lower gears.

So, in order to impress prospective buyers with high power numbers AND make the vehicle survive potential abuse at the hands of aggressive drivers (and keep warranty costs down), they introduced torque management as way to essential de-tune the engine, causing it to make less power in certain gears and in certain conditions, but advertised power in other gears where it really needed for things other hot rodding, drag racing, and showboating.

Not having torque management is rarely an issue unless you drive like that one high school kid that like to bounce the front of his truck in the parking like by hitting the brakes then the gas, then the brakes, then the gas... Or you stab the gas pedal every time you go, then hammer the brakes every time you slow. Shock loading the parts is bad for them, so TM tries to minimize that.

Yes, the vehicles programming also defuels the motor before shifts to make them smoother and prolong clutch life, but the vehicle does that it all gears. When a programmer like DAP removes torque management, I believe the are talking about the power limiting that happens in 1st and 2nd as well as changing the amount of time that the engine will defuel between shifts.

2013 5.7l DC RB 4x4 TRD MAG GREY w/TOW PKG, WTEC MTS, BGDFLCTR, LOPRO TNO, BDRG, COACH ShKLS N BSHNGS, 45BKUPCAM, DYNAMT W/DB-3 MLV, PRMSiQ, PNR AVHX2500BT, H11_2_H9, Hlla500FF, MGMC #203, TRDSwyBr, PNR TSD1720C, JBLGTO628, PNR GMD8604, INF860w, FX2.0RR, BIL6112, IcnLefPk, RidRitBgs, DystrCrdl

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbq247265 View Post
Blenton = Mike Sweers
Blenton is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Blenton For This Useful Post:
RIjon (10-02-2018)
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-02-2018, 10:30 AM
Senior Member
Premium Member
 
RIjon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 4,236
Thanks: 5,215
Thanked 6,011 Times in 2,771 Posts
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blenton View Post
My understanding of torque management is that it has more to do with limiting the amount of power the truck will make under certain conditions - specifically in 1st and 2nd gear. This is done for several reasons, but mostly prolong the life of parts like transmission internals, u joints, ring and pinion, etc, as well as making the truck less of a handful to drive in those lower gears especially while turning and in inclement weather.

Multiply 401 lb ft by 1st gear (3.333) times the rear gears (4.30) and you have nearly 6,000 lb ft of torque to the wheels as you blow past 3,600 RPM in first gear. Surely that is plenty to break the tires free in most situations. If you power brake it from a standstill, the converter will let the engine RPM up to about 2,000, where it is still making over 300 lb ft, and you are putting 4330 lb ft of torque to the tires once you let off the brakes (ok, ok, really that's how much torque is being put to the rear axle shafts; once you put the tire on, it's a bit less than that because of the radius of the wheel, but you get the point).

Also, because of the way transmissions work with planetary gear sets and such, you can place a lot of load on individual components in lower gears.

So, in order to impress prospective buyers with high power numbers AND make the vehicle survive potential abuse at the hands of aggressive drivers (and keep warranty costs down), they introduced torque management as way to essential de-tune the engine, causing it to make less power in certain gears and in certain conditions, but advertised power in other gears where it really needed for things other hot rodding, drag racing, and showboating.

Not having torque management is rarely an issue unless you drive like that one high school kid that like to bounce the front of his truck in the parking like by hitting the brakes then the gas, then the brakes, then the gas... Or you stab the gas pedal every time you go, then hammer the brakes every time you slow. Shock loading the parts is bad for them, so TM tries to minimize that.

Yes, the vehicles programming also defuels the motor before shifts to make them smoother and prolong clutch life, but the vehicle does that it all gears. When a programmer like DAP removes torque management, I believe the are talking about the power limiting that happens in 1st and 2nd as well as changing the amount of time that the engine will defuel between shifts.


I agree with this. Well said

08 RCSB B00STED
10 T4R
RIjon is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-02-2018, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Thanks: 3
Thanked 118 Times in 89 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Great info Blenton, thank you!!!

2015 SR5, Crew Max, 4x4, 5.7, 4.30's, factory spray-in liner, white w/black interior, Hellwig rear bar, Hypertech, Bilstein 5100’s, middle setting.
Youngfrankenstein is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-02-2018, 11:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Art64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Perris, CA
Posts: 1,019
Thanks: 23
Thanked 493 Times in 264 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Torque management is greatly minimized with DAP tune. Although DAP stated on their facebook page that the torque converter is not locked to prevent damage to components over time. Safety nannies will still cut power to the wheels when slip is detected.

I do have the tune on my 2010 Crewmax 4x4. When I initially installed it, I had a little over 600 lbs of gravel on the bed. I was really impressed by the low end torque and the ability of the transmission to hold gear longer.

Before tune, a little bit of throttle pressing and it downshifts. And this is with 91 octane Shell. i've driven it like I stole it a few time before the tune, it just made the throttle more sensitive at low gear/speed. I've used tow/haul mode also before tune. A bit better acceleration from stop cause of higher shift points.

With DAP tune, significant improvement. More low end torque. At highway speeds, accelerates better in 6th gear compared to stock. Seems less effort for the engine. RPM stays low.


This Crewmax actually drives better than my 2007 RCSB with 5.7L with no tow package.

DAP Tuning is on Facebook and there is also a group DAPTIZED Tundras. You'll find a lot of info here from folks that have this tune on their Tundra. Before spending a lot of money on headers, exhaust, intake, take a look at this tune. You can run 87 or higher octane. You can add other mods, except supercharger, turbo on this tune. if you install SC, it needs to be tuned by DAP themselves.

There maybe a dap tuned Tundra near you. Maybe the owner can let you test drive his/her truck.

Just sayin. Not trying to sell this product or promote it. I just want Tundra owners to enjoy their Tundras more.

2010 Crewmax 4x4
King Shocks
Undercover SE
TRD Pro Skid Plate
Hankook Tires
Art64 is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-03-2018, 01:40 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 220
Thanks: 3
Thanked 118 Times in 89 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Thanks for sharing Art. Hey, with the DAP, do you need the tune updated if you add headers or change the exhaust?

2015 SR5, Crew Max, 4x4, 5.7, 4.30's, factory spray-in liner, white w/black interior, Hellwig rear bar, Hypertech, Bilstein 5100’s, middle setting.
Youngfrankenstein is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-03-2018, 02:49 PM
Senior Member
 
CP312's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 134
Thanks: 13
Thanked 42 Times in 34 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngfrankenstein View Post
Thanks for sharing Art. Hey, with the DAP, do you need the tune updated if you add headers or change the exhaust?


I asked this in the Daptised Tundras page and was told no, just disconnect the battery 2 hours I believe it was so it can relearn. Wasn’t DAP who told me but this guy seems to know his stuff and no one corrected him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2014 Tundra TRD Crewmax MGM
OME 614s CB +3 Shackles LR UCAs
MB TKO Wheels 295/60R20 Nitto Trail Grapplers
TRD Pro Grille with Color Matched Surround
Linex
CP312 is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-05-2018, 01:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,339
Thanks: 432
Thanked 1,549 Times in 1,074 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
a s/c is possible for your truck!
trac control is a lot more intrusive in later year trucks.
my s/c 08 was a known value when you wot it.
the s/c 2010 was a bit less predictable but still somewhat friendly
the s/c 2015 is always changing and you never know what you're going to get when pressing the accel pedal.and this is whether trac has been turned off or not.
felt acceleration is never a linear scale.sometimes it seems to pull harder than others.
haven't figured out if it's temp,humidity etc... related
restosud is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum > Tundra Discussion > Tundra Performance Modifications

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome