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post #46 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 04:51 PM
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Yes. My CCC is 11236

I can load my trailer with zero tongue weight. In reality if it is balanced perfectly on the deck, I would no need to drop the jack at all. Good luck accomplishing that though right?

So my trailer can load 11236 legally. We can agree with that. So I find a "whatever" that weighs 11236 lbs exactly.

Now let's just say I put 1000 lbs of tongue weight. Are you saying now I can find a "whatever" that weighs 12236 lbs on my trailer?
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post #47 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 06:39 PM
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Sorry for the long breaks in posts, I was actually using my trailer for work and no wi-fi in the mountains...

As requested:

A little hard to see, but you will read under the gross vehicle (trailer) weight rating is 14000 lbs on the left side.



In this picture, it states what the maximum weight I can put on the trailer is 11236 lbs due to minus the weight of the trailer.



Hope this helps.
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post #48 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 06:46 PM
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So back to tires.....

Now understanding that I do have a 14k lb trailer and the need for 3500+ lb rated tires, the ideas of getting an LT are pretty minimal. Running an ST tire doesn't bother me though. I have ran both with great success. ST tires are about 70.00 each cheaper and new wheels are not needed (that is a want...and will most likely get).

If anyone can find a 16" diameter tire that is rated at or just over 3500 lbs each, and is in a reasonable size, let me know. I would really like to get the mileage out of the trailer tires.
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post #49 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ColoradoTJ View Post

Now let's just say I put 1000 lbs of tongue weight. Are you saying now I can find a "whatever" that weighs 12236 lbs on my trailer?
No, not at all. Nothing will increase your GTWR.

That 11,236 load capacity (CCC) could only go up if your trailer magically went on a diet and shed weight.

The subtraction of TW only take place when you want to calculate the load on the tires and axles, which is what started our conversation.

So if you put your whole trailer on a scale and it weighs 12,000lbs, and then you scale just the 4 tires. The weight will drop, lets say it dropped to 11,000lbs. Where did you lose the 1,000lbs? You removed (subtracted) the tongue weight...and are left with the actual weight on the tires and axles.

EDIT: Just saw your stickers. Clearly it says you have a 14,000lb trailer...they state it as GVWR. Same difference.

Do you need tires to cover 14k/4? I still don't feel you do. Some percentage of TW should be subtracted.

Last edited by RinconVTR; 11-01-2015 at 06:51 PM.
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post #50 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 07:04 PM
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Yes, we are in agreement on that. Still doesn't cover the tire weight rating.

If I scale the trailer and I am at max weight of 14k lbs (trailer + cargo). Let's also agree about the 1000 lbs removed if hooked to truck and just the wheels are on scale. Now we are at 13000 lbs. So we are at 3250 per tire to hold that weight right?

Now go find me an LT tire in 235/85/16 size with a higher rating then 3250 lbs each. It is harder since most are 3042 lbs.

Specifications

So now I wonder why the manufacturer installed tires that are rated at 3510 lbs each?
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post #51 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ColoradoTJ View Post
Now go find me an LT tire in 235/85/16 size with a higher rating then 3250 lbs each. It is harder since most are 3042 lbs.
No problem. You have a super common trailer tire.

I have a hard on for my Carlisle's Radial Trial RH tires of late so I started there, but they at technically stamped with "ST". They offer two options, technically 3. Load rating = 3640 or 3960lbs @ 80 and 90psi with speed rating of 75mph.

Goodyear G614's have the LT stamp with 3750lbs per tire @ 110psi with 75mph speed rating.
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post #52 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 09:47 PM
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I asked, you answered. Thank you.

So first one is out since it is a ST tire. I would go with them though. I'm not stuck on LT tires. I can't be anymore due to availability.

The Goodyear G614 looks bad ass. I would have to see if my wheel could hold 110 psi. Down side, 334.00 each at Walmart is just not happening, most other suppliers is 350-390 each. Unfortunately this tire is only rated as a trailer only tire, and the load range G is a little overboard. So technically this is still an ST tire/trailer use only.

Any others that you found?
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post #53 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 04:41 PM
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So Colorado we have the same rated trailer. Mine is a tilt bed but that should not effect it. I don't loan my trailer to anyone that needs 14k but is too cheap to buy one.
If I did i would buy 18" 8 lug wheels. they are not expensive. lots of takeoff truck wheels.
I like using worn tires as it seems scrub is far less which means less chance of blowout. I have never blown a tire ever. Not that i am towing long distances. mostly less than 100miles and mostly a lot less per trip.
i too don,t get your math to be a reality. a tire won't pop the moment the rating gets exceeded. and if there is that load the trailer is moving very slowly if all. also why bring in the weight of the trailer? It is a constant no matter what tire you you. you cannot legally put 14 on your trailer with any trailer.
maybe being in a cooler area allows me to find lt or paasenger tires for the single axles to be fine. I do have a pair of st205's that are completely scrubbed down to the cord. I didn't do it. I just got the wheels to have a matched pair on my new trailer.
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post #54 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 06:35 PM
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So Colorado we have the same rated trailer. Mine is a tilt bed but that should not effect it. I don't loan my trailer to anyone that needs 14k but is too cheap to buy one.

I shouldn't loan mind out either, to be honest. If they can't afford to buy a trailer, go rent one. I actually may use your thought process on this topic.
If I did i would buy 18" 8 lug wheels. they are not expensive. lots of takeoff truck wheels.
Offset would could be an issue with doing this. Let's just say we found a set off a new Ram or Chevy (remember, Ford went away from the 8 on 6.5 a while back), no a bad idea in reality. There is a lot more options in that size than most for an LT tire. Have you done this? what Make/Year...etc?

I like using worn tires as it seems scrub is far less which means less chance of blowout. I have never blown a tire ever. Not that i am towing long distances. mostly less than 100miles and mostly a lot less per trip.

I don't see the difference between towing 100 miles or 10 miles. Your tires will heat up in a few miles to what they are going to anyway. The longest I tow is 500 miles per day. I have had great luck with LT tires and ST tires in the past. I do prefer the LT tires, but until the purchase of this trailer, a load range E LT tire was easer to find to handle 10K lb rating (2500 lbs per tire is easy to get). The only set of tires that were total crap were some Bias Ply tires that barely made the load rating of the trailer. They did not last long at all. Every single one blew out and I just exchanged them for the new spare tire I purchased a month earlier to replace the blow out that happened then.


i too don,t get your math to be a reality. a tire won't pop the moment the rating gets exceeded. and if there is that load the trailer is moving very slowly if all.

I never said it would pop if my tire was 20 lbs over weight. However, 300 lbs per tire+ at 65 mph, you willing to bet on that?

I rarely have this trailer at anything over 8K lbs. Will the Tundra handle it? For sure it will. The pic with the load of wood was HEAVY. I will never tell you how much that was since this is an open forum. It was at 9001 lbs, because that is what the yellow sticker says on my drivers door panel.


also why bring in the weight of the trailer? It is a constant no matter what tire you you. you cannot legally put 14 on your trailer with any trailer.

I really don't know how to explain this any better than I have. The weight of the trailer is constant, but it still is a static weight. Is the weight of the trailer not on the tires?

You are right, I can not put 14000 pounds on my trailer. You know why? The weight of the trailer reduces my load rating from 14000 lbs to 11236 since my trailer weighs in at 2764 pounds. Nonetheless, I can still load 11236 pounds on my trailer, plus the weight of the trailer (2764 lbs) equals what? 14000 pounds. So I need wheels and tires that can accommodate that load. I don't subtract tongue weight for the safety margin. However, let us subtract 1000 lbs for tongue weight. So now we can agree that my 14000 lb trailer now has 13000 lbs on it. So now we are closer to tire ratings of a common LT tire like 275/65/18E that is currently on my Tundra in the driveway. The load capacity is 3415 lbs per tire. Perfect. That works by my math since I needed 3250 lbs per tire to meet the 13000 lbs rating.

Now lets look at the legal side of things. I don't care if anyone only loads 1000 lbs on a 14000 lb trailer...ever. I know in most states privately owned trailers that are not in commerce (not making money, or commercial) will not mess with you at any level. However, if an officer disagrees with you and deems you commercial, you now have a fight on your hands, and most likely a few tickets to boot. So let's just say you are hauling a skid steer for a friend that is 50 miles away since you have the perfect tilt trailer for getting that done. Now you get pulled over and say something honest to the officer like "I am just helping a buddy out for the weekend. He is pitching in for fuel and giving me a few gift card to my favorite Walmart store. Boom. You are now a commerical vehicle. You just admitted to getting paid for your time and fuel. So technically you are making money. Now, your nice long list of tickets might include
- DOT/MC numbers clearly posted on the exterior of vehicle. Might even ask for your business insurance liabilities.
- Overloaded tow vehicle, since we all know the little yellow sticker on the inside of our drivers doors never will say 14000 lbs, more like 10800 at best. Mine says 9001 lbs. So I have to be really careful what I say and any dumb ass passengers say in my vehicle. This isn't a bad fine, 20.00 for every 1000 lbs. I got popped a few times for that since I forgot my overload slip a few times. No biggie, it was under 100.00.
- Now he will look at your nice tires that are on the trailer. He will look at the condition and load ratings. What the load rating on the side wall better add up to what the trailer is rated for (14000) or you will most likely get the second largest ticket for safety and overloaded trailer.

Do me a favor, go to a trailer sales lot and start asking questions. Even better, pull into a DOT weigh station and ask a few questions. I did, it is very informative and varies from state to state. The DOT officer will most likely tell you that since you are private owner/ operator you have nothing to worry about....until a Highway Patrolman states otherwise. I had a buddy in Arkansas that got nailed hard by being deemed commercial with a small trailer with lawn mowers. He was helping his church out, said the wrong things and was in a heap of legal problems quick. He ended up getting off with most of it due to the nice lawyer he hired, but that wasn't cheap either.
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post #55 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 08:24 PM
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If I did i would buy 18" 8 lug wheels. they are not expensive. lots of takeoff truck wheels.
Since I thought this was a damn good idea with some possibilities, I looked into this option.

Turns out this is the factory wheel offsets:

Chevy- 2001-10 +28mm, 2011-2015 +44mm
Dodge/Ram- 94-02 +19mm on a 16x6.5, all other years +43mm
Ford- +40-44mm

Trailer wheels are 0 offset.
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post #56 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 04:25 PM
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That is some good detective work. Did you get rim width also? If trailer rims are 0 offset with a 6" rim then you would need a larger + offset for a wider wheel. If the tires stuck out another inch, would that be a problem? maybe modify the fenders which i would think needed for the larger diameter tires anyways.
I will stick to the lt235's for awhile as i think they will be readily available for a long time and i don't plan on going over their capacity.

But i have been browsing ads for cheap wheels just in case. and up here alloys can take a beating looks wise so that is another option
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post #57 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 09:29 PM
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That is some good detective work. Did you get rim width also? If trailer rims are 0 offset with a 6" rim then you would need a larger + offset for a wider wheel. If the tires stuck out another inch, would that be a problem? maybe modify the fenders which i would think needed for the larger diameter tires anyways.
I will stick to the lt235's for awhile as i think they will be readily available for a long time and i don't plan on going over their capacity.

But i have been browsing ads for cheap wheels just in case. and up here alloys can take a beating looks wise so that is another option
Now I can't find the site all this information came from. Dammit!!

The Dodge 94-02 was the closest to a trailer wheel and a 16" wheel to boot. However, that doesn't help with tire selection.

I do remember that most of the other wheels were 7-8" wide.

However, it looks like the offsets are way too much and sticking out will not be the issue. The issue might be not fitting on the inside and hitting the springs and frame. I used this calculator, our wheels are 6" with 0 offset.
Wheel Offset Calculator | 1010Tires.com Discount Online Tire and Wheel Store
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post #58 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 10:19 PM
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Wheel and off set is a big pain for me.

I've found its just easier to get the wheels and tires first, then build the axle to fit the frame. I can place the spring support anywhere I need once I have the rim. No issues on having ng the frame too close to tire/wheel.

This has been a great topic. I've been looking for a decent(cheap) 17" or 18" wheels for some time. You guys have done the heavy searching for me. Thanks.
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post #59 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 10:40 PM
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You make a good point @koditten . Hell, you can get a good aftermarket wheel with the proper backspacing and go from there.

What is your opinion on the tire selection for my situation? Honest opinion.
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post #60 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-03-2015, 11:03 PM
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Im not gonna go back and research the whole thread, but in my opinion, an 18" with the same wheel as the tow vehicle would be the most reasonable answer. 18"; is pretty common for truck rubber. Lots of options.

I'm pro LT. Once you start spending money for quality, radial ST tires, you will realize that truck tires will do the same job, but with a bigcost savings.

Like @volleyball said, worn down LT tires seem to work just fine for jack knifing tandem trailers. I do the same and have never had a bead pop off. I even use a skid steer to move tandems. You can turn trailer around in Its own circle with a skid steer. I've left lots of scrubbed rubber on the ashfalt. Never popped a bead. I don't buy the stronger sidewall bull shit of an ST tire.


Like that has been answered already, as long as you are not commercial, there will be no issue being over weight by a couple hundred pounds per tire. Once you admit you are hauling for pay or trade, all bets are off.


I need to admit to you guys, this is my first night off in a week. I've had a few drinks. I won't apologize, but you need to be aware.
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