New standard is to always replace rotors..? - Page 2 - TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 06:57 PM
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How many miles on your Tundra? Were the brakes pulsating or making noise?

Replacing rotors is not mandatory unless worn down past spec, toasted, warped or grooved.

I think they do it to have fewer issues, and make more $. It is probably faster and you don't need a lathe or skilled operator to run the lathe.

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 07:54 PM
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If the rotors are warped too badly they need to be replaced. If they are OK then there is nothing to gain by replacing them. A possible problem arises when people use aftermarket long wearing pads as they cause excessive wear of the rotors. I stick with the standard pads as they are easy and cheap to replace.

The pads cost around $50 so a "brake job" with front disc pad replacement should be less than $300.

With my first Chevy truck the rotors needed to be replaced at 28,000 miles. I used aftermarket rotors and put another 150,000 miles on the truck and never needed new pads or rotors during that time.
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 08:15 PM
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Rotors

I usually do brakes on my own vehicles myself, occasionally having my indie repair shop do them with good quality parts.

If your brakes have been working well, the rotors will have a slight lip at the very edge, and almost certainly some shallow circumferential grooves. At 45K miles, if the grooves are deep, or if there are bands of rust near the edges of the pad contact area, change the rotors. You need to check both sides of each rotor, but checking the back surface is almost impossible with wheels on the vehicle. If one rotor is bad, replace both!. I've had rotors resurfaced twice on two different vehicles, and regretted it both times when they warped within a couple of thousand miles.

I had a 2000 Durango before my 2011 Tundra, and tried slotted rotors on that. They warped within a few thousand miles, the slots obviously create lines of weakness in the rotors.

Parts quality at chain brake shops is very questionable. Again on the Durango, I knew I would be doing pads/rotors all around within a few months when a caliper seized. I had little choice but to limp to a nearby chain brake shop and told them that while they were doing the caliper they might as well do the whole job. Big mistake. The rotors rusted and pitted badly, and within a year I did a complete brake job myself.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 09:12 PM
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In reading this, I imagine you feel you can’t do this yourself but you can! YouTube is your friend. if if you still feel you can’t, this is one of those friend or neighbors should help you situations. I wish you were closer and I would do it for you, but honestly, I feel like brake jobs are just as predatory as the jiffy lube guy trying to talk you into an air filter or wiper blades!
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 10:45 PM
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I absolutely agree with these guys. I have had my Tundra since new(2008) and I learned the hard way as well. I highly recommend replacing both, your just better off.
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 09:23 AM
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I have been told by dealerships and repair shops that they will only replace pads with new rotors, and/or sometimes only after turning the rotors. In this day and age of everyone getting sued for every little thing people can think of, changing the rotors with the pads is the most fool proof conservative way to do a brake job. But I do think it is overkill.

I do my own repair work and I usually just change the pads if the rotors are still good (not warped and pulsating). If the rotors are pulsating, I would be OK with turning them once as long as they are still in spec after the turn. They only take a couple thousands off the rotor when they turn them so it's not like they are removing half the thickness. But they do tend to warp after you have them turned, even with the small amount taken off.

I have also found that if you go to a local parts store (like an O'Reilys Auto Parts) and get their lifetime warranty rotors that they have been very good and sometimes are not much difference in cost than having the rotors turned, or close enough that it makes sense to just put new ones on.

I have brake jobs where I changed rotors to new, or just turned the rotors, and I've done just a pad change and left the rotors as is. No matter which way I do the repair, I still get full braking power. I just do a couple fast stops from about 45 mph to get the pads seated well, and they seem to work fine. Again, to be clear, I do think turning the rotors or replacing them results in a better brake job, but I think the difference is negligible for all practical purposes.

I have found the Wagner Thermoquiet pads are excellent. No brake dust, they stop well, no noises or problems, and last very well. Lifetime warranty also.

One last caution. I have in the past changed only the pads that needed to be changed (such as just the front, or just the rear), but I don't recommend that. If the pads you get have more or less friction than the pads installed, you will shift the braking force (and thus the heat) to the pads that grip the best. And that results in that set of rotors or drums getting hotter than they should.

Also, it changes the braking force balance of the car/truck, so it could make the rear brakes lock up before the front brakes and cause an accident. Or it might shift the braking force more to the front resulting in front wheel lock up with less braking force from the rear, resulting in longer braking distances.

So, when you do a brake job, do the front and back at the same time with the same brand of pads.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 03:51 PM
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On my last truck, 04 Dakota, the brakes were crap. Had a shudder at like 8000 miles. I had them turn the rotors. I had the shudder again at like 35K. Replaced pads and rotors, all aftermarket, did not have to touch the brakes again before selling it 50K later.

On my Tundra I started to get a wobble at 35 or 40k. Replaced pads, turned the rotors. Needed brake work again 60K as pads were fairly low. This time around I did both pads and rotors. I am now at 90K. It drives perfectly and they just told me I'm not even close to half shelf life on anything yet.

It is a combination of the factory rotor materials on newer vehicles not dissipating heat that well, which is exacerbated on heavier vehicles, and me being hard on brakes. The lesson I have learned is that it's a penny wise/pound foolish scenario. I can cheap out and turn the rotors on that first brake job, but I'll probably have to be under there for brake work again in a couple years. If I spend more money and replace everything on that first brake job, I usually don't have to do anything for at least 50K which is 5 years for me. At which point I can get away with a rotor turning and be good for another few years.

No, you don't HAVE to replace rotors every time you get a brake job. But it can be more cost effective over the life of the car if you at least do it the first time, if you normally pay someone for that stuff.

The cost of fuel to operate a 6000 pound 400 horsepower half ton that does 0-60 in under 7 seconds is kind of like the price of oil changes for a Porche 911. If you have to ask you probably can't afford it.

Last edited by eharri3; 09-10-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 04:44 PM
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Brake rotor warping is a issue with how hot the rotors get, and how they cool off. Thicker rotors resist heat better than thin rotors (it takes more heat to raise the temperature of a thick rotor vs a thin rotor). The amount of heat generated is directly proportional to the how hard you are pushing on the brakes, how fast you are going when you apply the brakes, and the length of time you hold down on the brakes, and the weight you are stopping. The faster you stop, the more heat that is generated. The higher the speed from which you stop, the more heat that is generated. The heavier the vehicle (and trailer), the more heat that is generated.

The issue is that high speed stops generate a tremendous amount of heat. And high speed fast stops generate exponentially more heat than a high speed stop. And high speed fast stops with a loaded vehicle generates exponentially even more heat.

The issue that causes the brake to warp is how the heat is dissapated. Extremely high heat will just plain warp a rotor. If you hold the brakes on for a long time, like going down a hill, you can warp to rotors.

But usually what happens that you do a high speed stop like coming off an exit ramp from the highway, generate a ton of heat, then stop at a stop light at the end of the ramp and sit there for a couple minutes. This allows the part of the rotor that is exposed to air to cool, but the part of the rotor that is covered by the brake pads stay hot, and the rotors warp.

To prevent warping, pay attention to the type of stops that generate high heat. Don't stop fast when you don't have to. And when you do have to stop, instead of doing a full stop, stop just a little short and let the truck slightly roll to allow the rotors to cool evenly. Especially when you do a high speed stop off the highway. It does not have to roll much, just a very slight roll as you wait for the light or traffic.

This little trick will make a huge difference in how long your rotors will last before they warp. I am in sales, with lots of highway miles and lots of high speed stops. Doing the slow roll thing, I have not warped a rotor since 2002. It really works.

Last edited by Mikecol; 09-05-2019 at 04:47 PM.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 09:32 PM
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I tend to change rotors with pads although there were times money was tight and I would do just the pads if the rotors looked ok and there was no pulsing. I've never put a dial indicator on them but probably wouldn't be a bad practice if you wanted to do just pads. Personally I think the Tundra brakes are shit to begin with even after the 2005 model year.

As far as chain repair shops the ones around here get the cheapest stuff they can get from the local chain auto parts stores. AutoZone and Advance Auto are generally their go-to if it's not a dealer only part.
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 01:39 PM
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I do not understand why turning the oem rotor just a lil bit to true it up , will make it warp again easily .
Yes if you take it way far to the minimum thickness , its allot less heat soak mass and bad stuff may happen .

BUT enough people on the forum have tried to true up these rotors with VERY poor results , so must be true !

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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 24hrsparkey View Post
I do not understand why turning the oem rotor just a lil bit to true it up , will make it warp again easily .
Yes if you take it way far to the minimum thickness , its allot less heat soak mass and bad stuff may happen .

BUT enough people on the forum have tried to true up these rotors with VERY poor results , so must be true !


What people don’t understand about metal is that it has stress in it. When metal goes through heat cycles, the stress changes. It can cause more stress, less stress, or cause the stress to be uneven across the part. The uneven stress is what will normally cause rotors to warp. I deal with metal bending and warping every day at work.

For instance I am running some 10” OD parts 42” long right now. Before they were heat treated they were straight within .005”. Now after going to heat treat, it’s about .150” runout. Granted that was 3 separate heating sequences up to 1600 degrees.


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