First Tow with new TT, 8400 lbs

[bluwtr49]

First, I will be comparing our pevious TV, a 2005 Jeep GC HEMI pulliing our 6,000 lb Jayco 25Z.

We bought the Tundra Crew Max Limited TRD about 10 days ago in Idaho Falls, Id and since then we pulled out 6,000 lb Jay Feather 25Z up to Polson, Mt. This is a pretty easy drive once one clears the pass just inside the Idaho border. The amazing thing is that between Butte, MT and Missoula I got 14.1 mph with the cruise at 55. Now granted that it a little down hill all the way but still pretty impressive. Once we headed north from Missoula the hills were more significant but still it did OK.

One 6% grade has a 45 mph limit just at the base and then it picks up to 55. The tundra was not happy at all. I was in 3rd gear at ~50 mph and ~3200 rpm and completly bogged down....just could not get the rpm up to the power band. The Jeep pulled this hill at 55 without breaking a sweat and had the oomp to accelerate to 60 or 65.

Two days ago we went to Missoula and traded in out Jayco for a Cougar 268 RLS with a dry wt of ~6800 lbs. By the time we loaded all oour stuff and with the full freash water tank (~500 lbs) I figure we're at ~8300 lbs or so with ~ 1200 lbs of tonque wt. I also picked up a new Equal-i-zer 12,000 lb hitch.

First impression....man you can really feed the extra 2300 lbs but the Tundra handled it OK. On the way back to Polson I was concerned about the hill that caused me grief with the smaller TT so I started my run a bit earlier and got the 3rd gear rpm up to ~3700 at 55 before it got steep. This helped as I was able to hold 55 all the way to the top but it was a struggle. The rest of the trip was pretty easy and the Tundra is going to be a good TV but I'm really concerned about getting back into the mountains. First thing will be to shed about 300 lbs of water as see if that helps.

Overall first impressions:

Love the gas mileage. Much better then the Jeep pulling the same load.

Engine is really load at high rpm and high loads. Much worse then the Jeep.

Hate the Transmission. Gear ratios in 2nd and 3rd are not good for mountain towing and requires a lot of shifting. 2nd is too low and 3rd is too high. If I had my choice I would drop the Jeep tranny in the Tundra so as to take advantage of the HP and torque at a more useful rpm. At 55, the Jeep is at 4200....right in the HEMI torque band and would pull any hill with researve power to hit 65 if needed. Can your imagine what the Tundra would be like???? With all the HP and torque it would be fantastic if it were usable.

For some reason, when I manually shift to 3rd for hills the Cuise Control kicks out and will not re-engage. Major pain in the butt.

The payload capacity is only 1320 lbs acording to the door sticker. I thought it would be closer to 1500 lbs. This is a tough one when I have a high tongue wt and 100 lbs of hitch assy. Just have to live with it as there is no way to change the payload.

The Tundra is very comfortable and actually rides better with the heavier TT. A real plus since we tow over 6K miles per year. Much better loaded ride then the Jeep.

Really don't like the rear seat not folding up for addional cargo space. Granted the seat back fold forward but it's not very good storage compared to a full flush floor.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Tundra but they have aways to go to be really great. For this year, it was the best choice on the market because of the towing capacity and luxury ammenties in one package. If I were doing this next year I probably seriously consider the GMC and the 403 HP 6.2L, 6 speed, and with real 1/2 ton capacity.

I will keep playing with the gear selections, speeds and etc. After some miles and becoming more familiar with strengths and weakness I suspect some of the short commings will be less of a problem.

[drewnick]

I tow a TT that weighs 9,500 lbs fully loaded - though I think I'm normally around 8,000 - 8,500.

I have not done any hwy mountain climing, only on backroads - but I agree that for pulling a TT in mountains, a gas engine is not ideal.

I am actually looking at getting a diesel instead - much lower power band. But I'm like you, the overall Tundra pkg was too much to pass up, so I don't regret the truck at all.

In fact, overall, it tows quite well, considering the REST of the time I don't want to ride in an HD truck. We'll see what I can get for the Tundra vs. what a diesel will cost.

Thanks for the towing report - I think it is an honest look at the truck and will be useful to many.

[gannonfamly]

Do you have a lot of sag in the rear when hitched up? I wonder how a set of Timbrends or airbags would change the ride.

I have been through that area as a child and remember how beautiful and mountainous it is.

Good write up. Thanks. Any pics?

[bluwtr49]

Originally Posted by drewnick

I tow a TT that weighs 9,500 lbs fully loaded - though I think I'm normally around 8,000 - 8,500.

I have not done any hwy mountain climing, only on backroads - but I agree that for pulling a TT in mountains, a gas engine is not ideal.

I am actually looking at getting a diesel instead - much lower power band. But I'm like you, the overall Tundra pkg was too much to pass up, so I don't regret the truck at all.

In fact, overall, it tows quite well, considering the REST of the time I don't want to ride in an HD truck. We'll see what I can get for the Tundra vs. what a diesel will cost.

Thanks for the towing report - I think it is an honest look at the truck and will be useful to many.

I have about 20K miles towing with a gasser in the mtns and they do very well if the tranny gears match the engine....in this case they don't.

I agree with you on the ride of a 3/4 ton, just unacceptable but with all the diesels coming out next year in 1/2 tons there may be a major shift. I had to buy a truck this year and couldn't wait. The 2009 Dodge Ram would have been my choice if they would get their act togeather and increase the towing capacity.

[narley]

Your report seems a bit different then my experience. I had even more weight with the 31 footer and all our gear plus 5 adults...take a look at theis hill, I had no problem maintaining 50mph.
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/popular-topi...de-profile.pdf

[bluwtr49]

Originally Posted by narley

Your report seems a bit different then my experience. I had even more weight with the 31 footer and all our gear plus 5 adults...take a look at theis hill, I had no problem maintaining 50mph.
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/popular-topi...de-profile.pdf

If I was only concerned about maintaining 50 mph at only 1800 meters then there would be no problem. Here in the western states, 1500 to1800 meters in simply flat land then we go up from there. Routine passes at 2000 to 2500 meters with occasional passes over 3,000 meters. Plus 6 to 7% grades. Personally, I like to pull these at 55 to 60 mph which is my referance point.

[Codiac]

Hmmm...I know the hill you are talking about very well. I have towed about the same weight over it with my Tundra and didn't have any issues. I have also towed that weight over Rogers Pass (continental divide) which is at 1709 meters or 5610 feet. McDonald Pass (continental Divide) 1920 meters 6299 feet. Pipestone Pass (continental divide) 1935 meters 6347 feet. And a few other nasty hills all around the State of Montana. Ravalli Hill, the one you are talking about is pretty tame in comparison. I have been able to pull those hills with no issues but some you simply don't want to be going 55 60 mph pulling that kind of weight because you wouldn't be able to make the sharp curves they have. I use the tow/haul mode instead of manual shift mode. I think it works better when pulling hills because the shift points work better. The truck stays in its tourqe curve much better. I use the manual mode on the downhill sides as needed but the truck will hold you back automatically with the trans pretty good. BTW...everyone get's a run at Ravalli hill because of the stupid 45mph zone before the hill

[tundratom]

Hi Dick,

I responded to you in another thread about towing a trailer. At that time, I had just completed my first tow with a toy hauler. From Mesa to the Mogollon Rim through Payson. Those are some steep hills and high altitude (7000 ft). I was able to hold about 60 or so in 2nd.

I picked up my own toy hauler last night. It is a 24' sand storm. My first pull is tonight. Going to the Mogollon Rim again. Will see how she does. For the steep hills, I just drop her to second and run some high rpm's

I hope you end up liking your Tundra for towing

[biz4two]

Originally Posted by tundratom

For the steep hills, I just drop her to second and run some high rpm's

This is exactly what I was going to say. These engines are "high" rev engines...and dropping into 2nd and reving at 4200-4500 rpm should be no problem...and can be done all day long. Plus...using Tow/Haul mode should help keep those rpm's in the peak target.

I know...hearing the engine rpm's that high causes mild "stress" on your nerves, but it is completely safe to do.

I moved from an older style truck to one that has an OHC setup...and it took me sometime to adjust to the higher revs.


biz

[bluwtr49]

Thanks for all the feed back. I haven't given 2nd gear a good shot yet. One quick test seemed to give 4700 rpm at 55. I guess I was just spoiled with the Jeep where the tranny was perfectly geared to match the engine power. My desire has alway been to pull any grade at 55 mph with enough power reserve to accelerate to 65 for passing. With the Jeep this was 2nd gear (4200 rpm at 55 and 4700 rpm at 65), cruise control engaged and just push the button to change speed.

I admit there is still a lot to learn about towing with the Tundra but the gear ratios I am not to fond off at this point.

Why won't the Cruise control work in 3rd gear when manually selected. This is another of the rather bizzare features I'm encountering. It falls into the catagory of the TPM not displaying pressures, no full time 4WD, no locking differantials and a hose of other misssing amenities that I'm used to.

For those with more experiece with the Tundra the I.....picture the grade going N of 395 from Bishop, Ca. You're pulling 8000 to 8500 lbs, at 4700 ft and have ~ 10 miles of 6+ % grade going to 8200 ft, you wish to hold 55 with an occasional burst to 65 while passing and prefer not to change gears, and do it with the cruise control set. How would you do that? Perhaps not using the manual selector is the key, I did it that way because that is the way I always did it but that doesn't mean it's the best with this truck.

[Smed]

I'm getting a troll feeling here.

I have a LOT of trouble believing a vehicle with half the tow rating, much less horsepower, a much narrower power band, worse brakes, 3.73 gears, and a much less advanced tranny is the better tow vehicle.

Let me reiterate - you sir are full of shit.

[ramoine]

Originally Posted by bluwtr49

Thanks for all the feed back. I haven't given 2nd gear a good shot yet. One quick test seemed to give 4700 rpm at 55. I guess I was just spoiled with the Jeep where the tranny was perfectly geared to match the engine power. My desire has alway been to pull any grade at 55 mph with enough power reserve to accelerate to 65 for passing. With the Jeep this was 2nd gear (4200 rpm at 55 and 4700 rpm at 65), cruise control engaged and just push the button to change speed.

I admit there is still a lot to learn about towing with the Tundra but the gear ratios I am not to fond off at this point.

Why won't the Cruise control work in 3rd gear when manually selected. This is another of the rather bizzare features I'm encountering. It falls into the catagory of the TPM not displaying pressures, no full time 4WD, no locking differantials and a hose of other misssing amenities that I'm used to.

For those with more experiece with the Tundra the I.....picture the grade going N of 395 from Bishop, Ca. You're pulling 8000 to 8500 lbs, at 4700 ft and have ~ 10 miles of 6+ % grade going to 8200 ft, you wish to hold 55 with an occasional burst to 65 while passing and prefer not to change gears, and do it with the cruise control set. How would you do that? Perhaps not using the manual selector is the key, I did it that way because that is the way I always did it but that doesn't mean it's the best with this truck.

How in the world can you say a 2005 GC can tow better than the Tundra ?
Then complain about not having all the amenities ? Did you not know what you were buying ? There is no way that little GC is going to out pull the tundra , the GC has a much lesser tow rating , and a 4 speed tranny !
Hook up that new trailer to you GC and then tell us how it goes .

[bluwtr49]

Originally Posted by Smed

I'm getting a troll feeling here.

I have a LOT of trouble believing a vehicle with half the tow rating, much less horsepower, a much narrower power band, worse brakes, 3.73 gears, and a much less advanced tranny is the better tow vehicle.

Let me reiterate - you sir are full of shit.

That strikes me a just a little bit harsh. Perhaps you misunderstand me.

I am not contending that the Jeep can pull 8400 lbs under the conditions I've stated. What I am saying is that the Jeep was perfectly matched to the original TT load of 6,000 lbs (83% of tow capacity) and would perform exactly as stated. My expectation was that the Tundra with the extra HP and torque would perform in the same fashion with a higher load but still at only 80% of it's tow capacity.

As far as the Tranny goes, I see no evidence that the Tundra's is much more advanced, merely differant in that is a 6 sp vs. 5 sp. The gear selector funtion of the Jeep was not a seperate gate, you merely tap the handle right or left. Like I say, just differant. My initial observation remains the same, the 2nd and 3rd gears don't seem to be able to take full advantage of the engines capablity. As also stated, I have not driven it long enough to fully understand the best driving techiques for towing.

Overall, the Tundra is a good basic truck. I can live without the advanced 4 wd system of the Jeep and the lack of amenities in exchange for it's towing ability....which is why I bought it in the first place.

I would like to think that this forum is a venue for open discusion, and so far (except for Smed) there has been some good information. There always needs to be one small person with blinders though.

OK, that discourse aside......what is going on with the cruise control not engaging when in 3rd gear ( I guess you would call it S-3). Is this normal or a problem with mine?

As far as pulling hills goes, when I leave here and head south, I'll try just keeping it in D with the tow/haul engaged, the cruise set at 55-60 and see what happens. There is a awful lot of shifting going on in drive but that may be OK with this tranny. Somewhere along the line, I'll get it wieghed as see what I've really got.

Thanks again to all for your input (well almost all).

[RIjon]

Sounds to me like you should have bought a 1 ton diesel.

And as far as the 4wd/awd system goes......if you did indeed have a similar system as the GC in your tundra... you would just horrible MPG. There is always a sacrifice.

With what you have expressed here, and your expectations, I feel you bought the wrong vehicle. You should have done a bit more homework.

I myself just traded in my F350 Superduty for the Tundra.

[Deznutjob]

Please, lets see a pic, Dick!!!