2012 Tundra and 5th wheel towing limits - TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum
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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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2012 Tundra and 5th wheel towing limits

Sorry if this is redundant, couldnt seem to find my answer via search and new here.....

soooo, have a smaller fifth wheel and looking to upgrade and want advice on how big (tongue limits, overall weight) I can go without beating my truck up to bad.

I have a 2012 Tundra with 5.7 litre V8, double cab, 6 ft bed, with TRD off road package. I will only tow this rig 4-6 times a year, but 2 of those trips are about 5 hours.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to weigh in
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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Just had a pretty insightful conversation with my brother-in-law (runs a Firestone and has had a few 5th wheels) so feel like in terms of overall weight i'm good with anything I'm considering but would still luv to hear opinions on the MAX PIN WEIGHT i can safely go with??
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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 05:04 PM
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I dunno about 5th wheels but here is my setup.

I am towing a 5,200 lb travel trailer. When I hook it up with weight distribution hitch and add 600 lbs of people and cargo I am basically maxed out for the GVWR of 7,150 lbs

Not sure how much weight the pin puts on your truck but if towing with 2-3 passengers I did not get much wiggle room.
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 05:10 PM
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http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/docum...df/sec_2-5.pdf


Should have all the info you need.

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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markbrit View Post
I dunno about 5th wheels but here is my setup.

I am towing a 5,200 lb travel trailer. When I hook it up with weight distribution hitch and add 600 lbs of people and cargo I am basically maxed out for the GVWR of 7,150 lbs

Not sure how much weight the pin puts on your truck but if towing with 2-3 passengers I did not get much wiggle room.
thx, travel trailers kinda different animal
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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 06:14 PM
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The quick answer is around 8500lbs if your truck is still stock and doesn't have a bunch of additions like bumpers, toolboxes aftermarket tires etc. That is just a generic answer though..
A 5th wheel doesn't increase the max towing weight of a vehicle, it just adds stability, turning, and a increase over the gross bumper towing ability.

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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by riccnick View Post
thx, that was basically my manual.....still no guidance on pin weight
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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 11:18 PM
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As most will tell you, half ton trucks are not made to tow fivers. They can "tow" weight but can't "carry" it. The big issue is the the payload available vs pinweight. Half tons have low payloads and it is difficult to find even the smallest fiver with a low enough pin weight. Can it be done? sure, many do it but they are all overweight.

The Tundra DC has a payload around 1600lbs which includes full tank of gas and 150lbs for the driver. Reduce that number by anything else (drivers weight over 150, passengers, pets, gear etc) that you put in the truck to find remaining payload. Don't forget to subtract the weight of the fiver hitch as well. What's left is available for pin weight. The average fiver pin weight is 20% of the loaded trailer weight.

Example;

payload = 1600lbs

Subtract:
50lbs (driver is 200lbs. 200-150 included)
150lbs for wife
50lbs for dog
200lbs for hitch

Leaves 1150lbs of payload for pin weight.

Average pin weight of 20% means max trailer weight of 5750lbs LOADED
(5750X 20% = 1150)

If you pack light and only put 750lbs of stuff in the trailer you would need to find a fiver with a delivered weight (not dry) of under 5000lbs. I don't know of any fivers that light.
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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jetboy1975 View Post
As most will tell you, half ton trucks are not made to tow fivers. They can "tow" weight but can't "carry" it. The big issue is the the payload available vs pinweight. Half tons have low payloads and it is difficult to find even the smallest fiver with a low enough pin weight. Can it be done? sure, many do it but they are all overweight.

The Tundra DC has a payload around 1600lbs which includes full tank of gas and 150lbs for the driver. Reduce that number by anything else (drivers weight over 150, passengers, pets, gear etc) that you put in the truck to find remaining payload. Don't forget to subtract the weight of the fiver hitch as well. What's left is available for pin weight. The average fiver pin weight is 20% of the loaded trailer weight.

Example;

payload = 1600lbs

Subtract:
50lbs (driver is 200lbs. 200-150 included)
150lbs for wife
50lbs for dog
200lbs for hitch

Leaves 1150lbs of payload for pin weight.

Average pin weight of 20% means max trailer weight of 5750lbs LOADED
(5750X 20% = 1150)

If you pack light and only put 750lbs of stuff in the trailer you would need to find a fiver with a delivered weight (not dry) of under 5000lbs. I don't know of any fivers that light.
Great insight, thx much
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-21-2012, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by luvmyota View Post
thx, travel trailers kinda different animal
Would like to hear more info on this. Basically I would thing pin weight is tongue weight and it needs to be set below the max of what the payload (GWVR) of the truck is.

Look forward to hearing more, thanks.
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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-21-2012, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetboy1975
As most will tell you, half ton trucks are not made to tow fivers. They can "tow" weight but can't "carry" it. The big issue is the the payload available vs pinweight. Half tons have low payloads and it is difficult to find even the smallest fiver with a low enough pin weight. Can it be done? sure, many do it but they are all overweight.

The Tundra DC has a payload around 1600lbs which includes full tank of gas and 150lbs for the driver. Reduce that number by anything else (drivers weight over 150, passengers, pets, gear etc) that you put in the truck to find remaining payload. Don't forget to subtract the weight of the fiver hitch as well. What's left is available for pin weight. The average fiver pin weight is 20% of the loaded trailer weight.

Example;

payload = 1600lbs

Subtract:
50lbs (driver is 200lbs. 200-150 included)
150lbs for wife
50lbs for dog
200lbs for hitch

Leaves 1150lbs of payload for pin weight.

Average pin weight of 20% means max trailer weight of 5750lbs LOADED
(5750X 20% = 1150)

If you pack light and only put 750lbs of stuff in the trailer you would need to find a fiver with a delivered weight (not dry) of under 5000lbs. I don't know of any fivers that light.
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Originally Posted by luvmyota View Post
Great insight, thx much
This is almost exactly what was in the info i posted, lol. But you get the jist, basically, like markbrit said, the tongue weight or pin weight cannot exceed the gross payload rating. And if you already have payload in the truck (passengers, normal sized american drivers, children, cargo, etc) then you must subtract that weight from the gross rating to get the remainder you have left to use. The whole idea behind a fifth wheel trailer is to put more weight over the axle, as opposed to behind it, which acts like a lever, and gives you the "nose up" stance. However, half ton trucks do not have high enough payload cap. to make it worth it. A ~5,500 lbs fifth wheel is a small fifth wheel. You may be better off with a conventional TT with a weight distribution hitch.

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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-21-2012, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by riccnick View Post
This is almost exactly what was in the info i posted, lol. But you get the jist, basically, like markbrit said, the tongue weight or pin weight cannot exceed the gross payload rating. And if you already have payload in the truck (passengers, normal sized american drivers, children, cargo, etc) then you must subtract that weight from the gross rating to get the remainder you have left to use. The whole idea behind a fifth wheel trailer is to put more weight over the axle, as opposed to behind it, which acts like a lever, and gives you the "nose up" stance. However, half ton trucks do not have high enough payload cap. to make it worth it. A ~5,500 lbs fifth wheel is a small fifth wheel. You may be better off with a conventional TT with a weight distribution hitch.
I am currently pulling a Coachmen 5th wheel, 1995 Catalina that weighs roughly 5,500 without gear (I pulled it for 4 years with my mid size tundra no prob) and it barely squats my new truck an inch, 2 at most.

the "formula" you guys have provided makes sense and seems to accurately reflect weight ratings/limits, sooooooooo..........please comment on this....

Currently discussing a 2013 Elkridge 26 FT express with a pin weight of approx. 1500 lbs, this is one of a series of fivers in the market "designed" to be hauled by 1/2 ton trucks. Keep in mind in PA, it is unlawful for a dealer to allow you to haul away a camper in a truck that is not rated to pull it.

Any thoughts???
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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-21-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by luvmyota View Post
Keep in mind in PA, it is unlawful for a dealer to allow you to haul away a camper in a truck that is not rated to pull it.

My first thought is do not trust a dealer. They will push the envelope to sell. It just happens.

You can do the math from info above. For my truck here would be the scenario:

My truck weighs 6,280 lbs with tools, 400 lbs of passengers and a full tank of gas. It has a GVWR of 7,150 lbs. So if I add 1,500 lbs of pin weight to 6,280 lbs I get 7,780 lbs total.

For my truck I am 630 lbs over max weight.

Last edited by markbrit; 08-21-2012 at 10:21 AM.
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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-21-2012, 12:08 PM
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For my truck I am 630 lbs over max weight.
You said it right there. I don't doubt that the Tundra will handle it (might need airbags) but it's a matter of how safe and comfortable you feel about being overweight.

Don't forget to consider not only GVWR but also rear axle rating and tire rating (usually the weak point) especially if you have stock "p" rated tires.
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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 08-21-2012, 12:24 PM
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For my truck:

front axles is 4k, rear is 4,150 lbs.

Truck came with:
bridgestone dueler ht684 II P255/70/r18 tread 360 temp B
12T sidewall rating
Tires are rated for 2,350 lbs each


Again I think a 1,500 lb pin weight would be too much for gvwr. It also could be stressing the back tires and axle. Only true way is to go to a cat scale and get a report.

I saw original poster suggests a 900 lb pin option. May be better suited. A quick review of gvwr and cargo/payload would provide a ballpark idea.
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