Best Exhaust so far...???

[07Sport]

Originally Posted by Blue Streaker

Why the harsh words on the Zoomers guys? Pimping? I don't see it, they've been nothing but informative and no one I've spoken to knows more about their products than Ron at Zoomers. Give em a break, remember without supporting vendors we wouldn't have these forums to spout off, now would we...

Sure we would, its not like these forums cost oodles of money. I know people in the IT world, as well as have purchased and been an admin. on other forums, and the upkeep costs are quite small. The initial cost of getting the site up isnt even bad unless you have to hire a site designer.

All vendors do is give the owners a nice little pocket change every month for advertising rights on their (the owners) bandwidth/webspace.

If people wanna waste money on overpriced products, thats up to them IMO. I have no problem with Zoomers or any other company attempting to sell their product to consumers.

[rmjdrift]

Overpriced, well some people like to leave their cars and trucks stock, but for those of us who love to modify them, we know that super cheap prices usually means super cheap quality. Whether it's a hot rod, import, truck, whatever it is, if you wanna build it right the first time you know quality cost money.

[Kensaku]

Originally Posted by 07Sport

Sure we would, its not like these forums cost oodles of money. I know people in the IT world, as well as have purchased and been an admin. on other forums, and the upkeep costs are quite small. The initial cost of getting the site up isnt even bad unless you have to hire a site designer.

All vendors do is give the owners a nice little pocket change every month for advertising rights on their (the owners) bandwidth/webspace.

If people wanna waste money on overpriced products, thats up to them IMO. I have no problem with Zoomers or any other company attempting to sell their product to consumers.

Depends how you want to run the forum. Also, expense is relative to whoever is dolling out the money. Most of these forums are done for the community rather than for a business, so it's not about the money but about the time and effort.

That said, give Zoomers a break to those that are complaining.

[tundratom]

think $700 is expensive for an exhaust system (zoomers, jba, whatever...) -- go price the stock parts from the toyota dealer :-)

quality parts are not cheap. you have to think of the total overhead: designing, testing, manufacturing of the parts, advertising, in addition to the overhead of just having a business.

want a cheap exhaust for your tundra? don't change the stock one. it is a good system to begin with.

[rmjdrift]

good point tom. Heck the TRD one i believe retails for 1000

[07Sport]

Originally Posted by rmjdrift

Overpriced, well some people like to leave their cars and trucks stock, but for those of us who love to modify them, we know that super cheap prices usually means super cheap quality. Whether it's a hot rod, import, truck, whatever it is, if you wanna build it right the first time you know quality cost money.

I also like to customize my trucks/cars. I cant understand how people can, in good conscious, tell people who are obviously being influenced by them to spend upwards of $600 on an exhaust system. Wasted money, OVERPRICED, absolutely IMO.

Ive already referenced it, but stainless is irrelevant to quality. Even in the harshest of winters, an aluminized system will last for at least 5+ years, and probly closer to 10+. How many plan to keep their trucks for 10+ years?

I personally have a grand total of $192 in my exhaust setup, and I would challenge anyone similarly modded to notice a difference in power, acceleration OR sound between mine and a OVERPRICED catback system.

I dont have a problem with people attempting to sell their products. I dont even have a problem with people selling UNBELIEVABLY OVERPRICED products if the consumers are naive enough to buy it. My problem is when people ask for honest opinions, people come in with (like yourself above) "If you wanna do it RIGHT", or, "Dont go the CHEAP route, do it RIGHT the first time", somehow insinuating that those of us not stupid enough to feed the beast and did our own setup is wrong or not as good as whatever your offering.

So, having that all said, again, I have no problem with people attempting to sell their product, but I also will at least let it be known there is no single right way to do it, and the same results can be had with much less money invested. Maybe Im the only one that still cares where my money goes, and what the product Im buying is worth.

[Aperformance]

Originally Posted by 07Sport

I also like to customize my trucks/cars. I cant understand how people can, in good conscious, tell people who are obviously being influenced by them to spend upwards of $600 on an exhaust system. Wasted money, OVERPRICED, absolutely IMO.

Ive already referenced it, but stainless is irrelevant to quality. Even in the harshest of winters, an aluminized system will last for at least 5+ years, and probly closer to 10+. How many plan to keep their trucks for 10+ years?

I personally have a grand total of $192 in my exhaust setup, and I would challenge anyone similarly modded to notice a difference in power, acceleration OR sound between mine and a OVERPRICED catback system.

I dont have a problem with people attempting to sell their products. I dont even have a problem with people selling UNBELIEVABLY OVERPRICED products if the consumers are naive enough to buy it. My problem is when people ask for honest opinions, people come in with (like yourself above) "If you wanna do it RIGHT", or, "Dont go the CHEAP route, do it RIGHT the first time", somehow insinuating that those of us not stupid enough to feed the beast and did our own setup is wrong or not as good as whatever your offering.

So, having that all said, again, I have no problem with people attempting to sell their product, but I also will at least let it be known there is no single right way to do it, and the same results can be had with much less money invested. Maybe Im the only one that still cares where my money goes, and what the product Im buying is worth.

Choices are what make our lives interesting IMO... Some may choose to save by just replacing a stocker with a Flowmaster, but just because someone chooses a cat back over a muffler swap doesn't mean he was ripped off either.

There is a lot of engineering that goes into an exhaust system. From the basic design built on the vehicle to building the jig's to test fitting pre-production runs making sure fitment is repeatable is quite a task. Then there is a sound evaluation and performance testing and then perhaps changes to be made to make improvements.

We at Zoomers go the extra mile to insure quality, performance and reliability. Something to consider before making your statement; “I don’t even have a problem with people selling UNBELIEVABLY OVERPRICED products if the consumers are naive enough to buy it."

There are many factors, materials, affordability the products reputation as well as feedback on these forums is all important before making a decision. So IMHO there is nothing naive about it, if the choice is right for you.

[07Sport]

Originally Posted by Aperformance

Choices are what make our lives interesting IMO... Some may choose to save by just replacing a stocker with a Flowmaster, but just because someone chooses a cat back over a muffler swap doesn't mean he was ripped off either.

There is a lot of engineering that goes into an exhaust system. From the basic design built on the vehicle to building the jig's to test fitting pre-production runs making sure fitment is repeatable is quite a task. Then there is a sound evaluation and performance testing and then perhaps changes to be made to make improvements.

We at Zoomers go the extra mile to insure quality, performance and reliability. Something to consider before making your statement; “I don’t even have a problem with people selling UNBELIEVABLY OVERPRICED products if the consumers are naive enough to buy it."

There are many factors, materials, affordability the products reputation as well as feedback on these forums is all important before making a decision. So IMHO there is nothing naive about it, if the choice is right for you.

Shocking...

I guess we'll just need to agree to disagree. Im looking at it from a consumers position, one w/o unending funds, and youre looking at it from a producers standpoint.

I guess its somewhat ironic in that I believe the "old school" way, in that a product offered should reflect its worth. Im tempted to get up w/ my exhaust shop, spend a day fitting and making jigs, and then sell said product to the public as the only "right" way for 800% profit and call it a day. Sadly my ethics and upbringing keep me from doing such.

So, its all water under the bridge as far as Im concerned. People love options, variety is the spice of life eh? Just sad to me that today, companies think only in profit margins and bottom line, instead of fair prices and honest service. The beauty of capitalism I suppose.

Edit: I just want to add, this is by no means a personal attack of, or in any way specific reference to Zoomers. All companies whether it be Flowmaster, Borla, Magnaflow, JBA, Gibson, Dynomax and so on, and so forth are guilty of the same. I commend Zoomers for standing behind their product, just disagree with theirs and others concept of relative worth and fair treatment.

[rmjdrift]

07Sport, you do make some very good points. and yes alumized piping works great, heck we built our own exhaust with it here at the shop for the race car to save some money.

Some of us are able to build and fab up our own modifications, but some people want to buy a quality product, and well Zoomers as well as others are just trying to tailor to them.

WE sell, install, and tune many different products on many different set-ups and for the most part quality costs some bucks, can you get around it for less is some cases, yes, you are correct in saying that.

Last question, did you just cut the stocker off and replace it with a flowmaster, or did you do some repiping as well?

[07Sport]

Originally Posted by rmjdrift

07Sport, you do make some very good points. and yes alumized piping works great, heck we built our own exhaust with it here at the shop for the race car to save some money.

Some of us are able to build and fab up our own modifications, but some people want to buy a quality product, and well Zoomers as well as others are just trying to tailor to them.

WE sell, install, and tune many different products on many different set-ups and for the most part quality costs some bucks, can you get around it for less is some cases, yes, you are correct in saying that.

Last question, did you just cut the stocker off and replace it with a flowmaster, or did you do some repiping as well?

I agree, and Id like to apologize to Zoomers and anyone who I might have been overly harsh to. That is a good point that I suppose I overlooked, in that some would simply prefer to spend the extra money than have to take their truck to an exhaust shop to do their own custom setup. Simplicity of modification I guess you could call it. Not worth it to me, but perhaps for some.

The shop did cut the factory setup off, and then custom bent the dual exit 2.25 pipes running out the stock location w/ 2 2.5" I believe stainless tips.

[rmjdrift]

you got any pics, seen the sound clip curious about the look

[07Sport]

Originally Posted by rmjdrift

you got any pics, seen the sound clip curious about the look

Ive got a couple of the exit position, but none of the pipes under the truck. Never occured to me to get some as I stood and watched the guy when he did it.

[RunItHard]

Originally Posted by OVCOOLGUY

I'm not real big on those "Everyone needs to hear me coming from 3 miles away" exhaust's.

I am one of those guys who wants everyone to hear me coming from 3 miles away! I'm a die-hard motorhead! You know, one of those guys who turns his stereo off because he'd rather hear the sweet sound of a built engine!

If it doesn't set car alarms off, scare pitbulls and make babies cry it ain't loud enough.

I just traded in my 98 (Kenne Bell) supercharged Dodge Ram, for my sweet new 2007 5.7L Tundra Limited. My neighbors all complained because my new truck is so quiet it doesn't wake them up in the morning like my Dodge, and a bunch of them have been late for work.

I'll remedy that this weekend as my new Magnaflow cat-back was delivered today! (Dang, my wife signed for it and is already in my face.)

I know a lot of you guys talk smack about Magnaflow, but they worked great on my Dodge and my Boss 302, and I've been building racing engines for 28 years.

Back later to tell you how it works out.

See pics of my 98 Dodge Ram below. Kenne Bell twin-screw supercharger, Gibson stainless shorty headers, Magnaflow cat-back, MSD racing ignition, Edelbrock intake manifold, Bosch fuel injectors, LS1 methanol injection, Dakota digital gauges, Edelbrock IAS shocks, Hellwig rear sway bar, Air-lift rear suspension

Hey Zoomers Guy... Had Magnaflow cat-back on this truck for 8 years on salted winter roads and no rust... Of course I do take care of my vehicles.

[kyle@proforcems]

07Sport-

You make some excellent points. Your best and most relevant one came when you said that you are seeing it from the consumer's side and Zoomers or anyother manufacturer is seeing it from the manufaturer's side.

I am in the process of making my own exhaust for the Tundra. Currently I have designed 5 different systems in an effort to make the most power. I will make another 5 if I have to in order to find the most power possible from the exhaust on this truck. Each one of my systems gets an entire day of dyno testing and tuning. This is very expensive as I don't own my own dyno. I have to pay for each run that I do and dyno testing is not cheap in California.

There are MANY different things that come into play when designing and building any automotive parts, then there are a number of things that come into play when finalizing the price for that exhaust.

I agree that for $192.00 you can definitely make an exhaust that will sound different than stock. But, did you do any dyno testing when developing the exhaust? Are you positive that it actually made horsepower and if so how much of a gain did your tests show?

I've been in the aftermarket industry for my entire life. My family owns a few very well respected manufacturing and retail companies. We get very very frustrated when we see false or unrealistic claims because they definitely do exist. There are definitely fly by night companies that claim outrageous gains so I completely understand where you're coming from there.

However, it is very expensive to produce a part. Your exhaust only had to fit your truck. Zoomers, Gibson, Magnaflow, JBA, and soon to be myself have to design an exhaust that will fit ALL Tundra's perfectly. This requires VERY expensive fixtures and jigs. Very expensive tooling and mandrel benders that can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If you look at the parts included in your box then yes, you paid between 400-700 dollars for a box of pipes and a muffler...But what you don't see is the HOURS of engineering that goes into developing that exhaust and making sure that it makes as much horsepower as possible. Or the thousands of dollars that someone had to invest in order to start manufacturing the exhaust. I will be the first person to admit that there are some companies out there that don't do this. There are some companies out there that don't take the time to do the dyno testing and they just make up numbers. Unfortunately that's the same for EVERY industry. All you can do is look at the facts and take them for what they are. Zoomers seems to be a company that stands by their product. I have seen many satisfied customers of theirs and I'm sure they will be in business for a long time. Magnaflow and JBA are also both great companies that have great reputations and those reputations are well deserved. Just like anything in life. If it sounds too good to be true, or something doesn't make sense to you, you're probably right...

At the end of the day you are right, no body is selling their exhaust for the cost. And why would they? No business works for cost. But you would be surprised at how little mark-up there really is in these exhaust systems. Another thing to consider is the cost of metals. Metal has become extremely expensive and has more than tripled in the past couple years.

On a side note, not to be argumentative but an aluminized exhaust will not hold up a single season in areas like Chicago, New York, Michigan. In those areas they salt the roads which expedites the corrosion process. I have been a first hand witness to an aftermarket aluminized exhaust last 4 months on a Suburban in Chicago.

I hope that no one takes this post as argumentative or disrespectful. I applaud people like 07sport for speaking their mind and also taking the innitiative to make his own exhaust. I love seeing people doing their own custom work. Whether it be performance, audio/visual, suspension, or exterior related. I love seeing people being creative with their vehicles. At the end of the day they are the one that has to walk out to their truck and enjoy driving it.

[tulsa tundra]

Just purchased my 07 Crewmax 5.7L. Had the dealer install the Magnaflow Duals without hearing them first. I love the way they sound , except for the drone at cruising speed. They are very loud in the cab. I don't know what the solution to this is. Any suggestions?