F150 Or Tundra No Cheer Leaders Please

[ForDorToY]

Howdy Fellas,

Let me start by complimenting you on a very clean well run forum.

Anyways, I'm a current 04 F150 owner, and always figured I'd be a Ford guy because their trucks are just so good. Every generation gets better and better, and I've only been let down (stranded on the road) once in 15 years. I get a new truck every three years or so after putting usually 160-180k miles on it. I find that after that period of time/miles it doesn't matter whos truck you drive you'll start having wear issues and reliability will suffer. I pull a 5k pound trailer about 120k of those miles. My trucks are always loaded 4 wheel drive models (current FX4 Crew).

My current truck just hit 145k miles and in a couple months will be ready for the pasture. It has performed flawlessly and has only been in for warranty 1 time for a noisey rear end. The interior still looks like brand new (last gen 150s had horrible leather), I have no wierd vibrations, no issues at all. Just drove my buddies Lariat last night (05 50k miles) and my truck feels just as solid as his newer one does.

I'm not very patient, and I already own 2 Toyota products, so I figured I come ask you fellas about your trucks. I've read all the bad press they have gotten over the last 6-8 months...camshafts, torque converters, flexing frame, buckling tailgates, vibrating dashes, and one I've never seen before was a picture posted here of a driver side seat folded backwards almost double. Now that's a scarey one.

There's also the fact that Toyota is heaping money on insentives for their new truck to get us to buy them. That's wierd, because I've never gotten a rebate from Toy on anything else I've ever bought from them.

I'm looking for REAL opinions from people that actually use their trucks for work. How many miles have they got? How are they holding up? How do they perform when working, not just drag racing Fords and Chevies.

I keep seeing everyone crow about reliability of their trucks and build quality. How do you know? Most Tundras I've seen are almost new and perform very little real truck work. Consumer Reports has them rated horribly.

My wifes 06 Toy has been to the dealer 4 times in 25k miles. Right now the blower motor is screaming for mercy and her airbag light just came on. Horrible paint, rude dealer, it's not really holding up like she expected a Toyota to hold up.

If I pull the trigger on a new Tundra will I be in for the same? Are the 08s coming out better? Have they addressed some of their teething issues?

I really dont want to wait for an 09 F150 (new sheet metal 6 speed trans), is a Tundra a viable option for someone who really uses their truck like a truck?

Thanks in advance for helping me out. All I've heard is bad about this truck (except for the motor)...I want to hear from the horses mouth about this thing. I can test drive all day long and still not learn what I need to know.

[rockstate45]

That's a toughy. The paint is sh*t on the new Tundras, the tailgate is indeed pretty flimsy if you really are going to be working it (driving quads on it and such) but at least you'll get a lot of free tailgates!

The power is immense and insane compared to the F150. Honestly, I think the new F150 is a better built truck than the new Tundra. The old Tundra would definitely put up a fight for quality.

The work, it can take quite a bit.



That's a pallet of concrete weighing 2000 lbs, plus the wood underneath, plus the 2x4x8 or however long they were and then a bunch of stuff in the concrete mixer. My guess is I had that thing loaded up to about 2400-2500 lbs once you include me and my buddy that were driving it. Payload on my truck is 1650. It wasn't on it's bumpstops.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t...5/100_1663.jpg

^picture of bumpstops with that load.

Then of course its speed.



Since you buy new cars so often why not get a left over '07, '08 F150 and drive it til the new F150s are proven? I'm a Ford guy personally but got stuck with the Tundra because of the side airbags and traction control. Otherwise I'd be driving a F150 now.

-rockstate

[jbk23]

I should be picking up my tundra on Monday and the truck is great I mean all
redisgned trucks are prone to issues such as you stated above but take the truck for a test drive. Take it down the freeway if they let you and open it up ask questions give it a chance.

[ForDorToY]

Originally Posted by rockstate45

That's a toughy. The paint is sh*t on the new Tundras, the tailgate is indeed pretty flimsy if you really are going to be working it (driving quads on it and such) but at least you'll get a lot of free tailgates!

The power is immense and insane compared to the F150. Honestly, I think the new F150 is a better built truck than the new Tundra. The old Tundra would definitely put up a fight for quality.

The work, it can take quite a bit.



That's a pallet of concrete weighing 2000 lbs, plus the wood underneath, plus the 2x4x8 or however long they were and then a bunch of stuff in the concrete mixer. My guess is I had that thing loaded up to about 2400-2500 lbs once you include me and my buddy that were driving it. Payload on my truck is 1650. It wasn't on it's bumpstops.



Then of course its speed.


Since you buy new cars so often why not get a left over '07, '08 F150 and drive it til the new F150s are proven? I'm a Ford guy personally but got stuck with the Tundra because of the side airbags and traction control. Otherwise I'd be driving a F150 now.

-rockstate

Nice post...thanks for the honesty, partner. So the paint and tailgate are not just internet anti-toyo bashing...they are a real issue. How about the bed hp/frame flexing? I saw a video (I believe produced by Ford, so I'm sure there's a little bias) that had the Tundra literally jumping off the road at 25mph over bumps while the domestics handled the same patch and speed fairly stable.

The 09 150 will be out in 6 months. I'd hate to buy the current model, then 6 months later have a truck that looks old (plus I want that 6 speed trans). I buy lots of trucks for business (used to be rangers, but now there's a couple stripper 150s sprinkled in), but this is my personal work truck, so wont be replacing it for a while.

No doubt the Tundra is quick. I've seen one at my local track run a 14.2 at 97mph...that's stock Lightning zone.

I also collect Fox Mustangs, so have no need for a race truck. My nitroused 331 Fox does just fine when I want to go quick. I'm building a Vorteched 331 notch right now that should be reliable at 500hp.

Basically I just like new stuff...when I want it, which is right about now. I'm fairly certain that I don't want anything from Mopar, GM, or Ford (if I have to wait 6 months)...that leaves Toyota (Nissan never even entered my mind) with the freshest product on the market. I would jump on board if I hadn't seen all the negative press on the Toyota, but it's there and I cant ignor it.

the post under yours says "just ordered my new truck, it's great, buy one" How do you fellas know it's so great if you just ordered it? Thanks for the real world imput on how your truck performs and the work it's able to do. How many miles and how often is it loaded this way? That would be helpful.

Nice video, btw.

[rockstate45]

Originally Posted by ForDorToY

Nice post...thanks for the honesty, partner. So the paint and tailgate are not just internet anti-toyo bashing...they are a real issue. How about the bed hp/frame flexing? I saw a video (I believe produced by Ford, so I'm sure there's a little bias) that had the Tundra literally jumping off the road at 25mph over bumps while the domestics handled the same patch and speed fairly stable.

The 09 150 will be out in 6 months. I'd hate to buy the current model, then 6 months later have a truck that looks old (plus I want that 6 speed trans). I buy lots of trucks for business (used to be rangers, but now there's a couple stripper 150s sprinkled in), but this is my personal work truck, so wont be replacing it for a while.

No doubt the Tundra is quick. I've seen one at my local track run a 14.2 at 97mph...that's stock Lightning zone.

I also collect Fox Mustangs, so have no need for a race truck. My nitroused 331 Fox does just fine when I want to go quick. I'm building a Vorteched 331 notch right now that should be reliable at 500hp.

Basically I just like new stuff...when I want it, which is right about now. I'm fairly certain that I don't want anything from Mopar, GM, or Ford (if I have to wait 6 months)...that leaves Toyota (Nissan never even entered my mind) with the freshest product on the market. I would jump on board if I hadn't seen all the negative press on the Toyota, but it's there and I cant ignor it.

the post under yours says "just ordered my new truck, it's great, buy one" How do you fellas know it's so great if you just ordered it? Thanks for the real world imput on how your truck performs and the work it's able to do. How many miles and how often is it loaded this way? That would be helpful.

Nice video, btw.

Thanks man, I appreciate it. The tailgate is indeed the real deal. The frame flex you're talking about I think is also referred to as "bed bounce" by the majority of people. It does exist and can be really bad if you live in California. I'm from Kansas and even there it can be bad on a few sections of roads. My brother had a coke can open in the back seat with him and he lost half of it into a paper towel because it was bouncing so bad. I can't actually make a comment on an F150 as I've never driven the new F150 on the highway myself.

The video you're talking about is typically concerned as a marketing gimmick by people on the Toyota forum. Whether or not it's real, I don't know. My take on it is that with the open C-channel in the back it's going to flex under load but then flex right back. A fully boxed frame will be better for that stuff and everyday usage but I guess for more of a work truck a open c channel is better, like the Super Duty. I don't know if that comparison makes sense or not.

Ah man I like Fox bodies a lot but it took a bit of persuasion to actually like them. Once I see a good one I really appreciate it. A vortech'd 331 would be ridiculous.

I hear ya on the new F150. The 6 speed is nice and all in the Tundra but it's very clunky. Much more clunky than my '98 Expedition with 150K miles (but that one has a really bad clunk going into a certain gear but it's butter smooth everywhere else). You have to be 100% butter smooth, at least in my truck, to not get it to clunk when upshifting without throttle (letting off the gas just before it shifts). My advice, is if you haven't test driven it yet, you should do it. It's a good truck but it doesn't do some things as well as the F150. In my opinion, it might be a compromise if you're really used to the F150. The interior is so so, mine rattles with 10K miles on it, the tailgate does clunk going over bumps (two coats of Rhino might have done that to it), and the side panels dent really easily, along with the easily scratched paint.

The F150, may be less powerful with a less advanced drivetrain, but it's a very solid truck as you've certainly seen with your past experiences.

Hope that helps man! To be honest, if it were my choice in what I was driving I'd put a REALLY hard look between the two trucks. I'd have to compromise the speed I love, but every time I get back into my Expedition it feels like I'm at home and I almost hate going back to the Toyota's we own.

-rockstate

[Mickey]

I haven't had a problem i.e. tailgate, flex, paint, torque, or camshaft. At 15,000 miles I had to replace pass mirror because it wouldn't close all the time automatically. I have almost 17,000 on my 07 Crewmax Limited. I've had an 03 F-150 which had computer problems 10x. I stayed with it till I was even and traded back to chevy with an 06 Silverado LT3 which was a nightmare. This Tundra to me rides very great. Made 7 trips in the truck already. Got as much as 24.7mpg at 55mph. Avg 20mpg. Get 22mpg at 60mph. With a few mods this can be done on the 5.7. It pulls my 18.5 boat out of the water with ease. I run my riding lawnmower up ramps on my tailgate to change blades and I have yet to see a crack. Good luck in your endeavors..

[tawood]

6 trips to the dealer for repairs in 6 weeks with the new Tundra (2200 miles), enough said!

[ForDorToY]

well, thanks fellas...esp Rock, for a true informed opinion of your truck. The fuel economy I keep hearing is a little far fetched, but it's got to be better than the current 150.

I get an average 13.2mpg cruising at 80 with a 5k pound trailer. 3.73 gears. I thought that was pretty damn good. Any towing numbers for the Toy?

[rockstate45]

Originally Posted by ForDorToY

well, thanks fellas...esp Rock, for a true informed opinion of your truck. The fuel economy I keep hearing is a little far fetched, but it's got to be better than the current 150.

I get an average 13.2mpg cruising at 80 with a 5k pound trailer. 3.73 gears. I thought that was pretty damn good. Any towing numbers for the Toy?

Not a problem man.

Wow. That's a pretty solid number in my opinion.

I don't tow or haul anything on the highway, nor do I have the trip computer so I can't take any accurate estimates of mpg when doing these things.

I make a 900 mile trip to school and when I keep my speed between 80-90 mostly it'll stay at around 15-16. I've heard of people getting about 19-20 if they keep it at 65 mph. For 900 miles, that's impossible and impractical.

Unfortunately, I don't keep great records of my gas mileage, I just calculate it at every stop. I can tell you in really short trips in the city while enjoying my exhaust, I see just over 10 mpg. I also have a Ranch Hand on the front of my truck, but I haven't seen any noticeable decrease in mpg with that on there.

I think you'd be happy with either of the trucks, especially if you got a fully decked out Limited Tundra. They're very nice and I did have a chance to test drive one. The traction control is a pretty good system in 4wd, spinning all 4 wheels instead of the two opposite wheels, but in 2wd it's downright annoying when you need it to be off. I think it's more beneficial than harmful (unless you're trying to be stupid with it like I was referring to in the last phrase).

-rockstate

[ForDorToY]

Wow...how did I miss this post? What the heck is up with your truck? Built on a Friday? Give me some details please.

Thanks

Originally Posted by tawood

6 trips to the dealer for repairs in 6 weeks with the new Tundra (2200 miles), enough said!

[Possum]

My 'short list was down to F150, Tundra and Ram2500(6spd manual) Now that I'm in the Tundra, I think the F150 might be a little tougher, but I strongly dislike the tranny. I was really impressed with Ram2500(diesel/6spd): very pleasant/ decent pedigree, but there are a few teething issues with the emission equipment. If you need tough sheet metal, you're running out of time...thin is in...Toyota's $$ incentives swung the deal for me. If it turns-out bad, I'll trade-in on a 3/4 ton Kia happy hunting

[tawood]

Originally Posted by ForDorToY

Wow...how did I miss this post? What the heck is up with your truck? Built on a Friday? Give me some details please.

Thanks

What a nightmare...first week, the paint came off the hood at the spray wash (see my post for pic: '07 w/nightmare paint), next ECM went bad, then my 8 year old pulled the interior door panel off while closing the back door, then I'm driving down my driveway in the snow (at about 5 mph mind you) and there is this jerking feeling w/STRONG smoke odor: burnt VSC/auto LSD, then my tailgate won't open and it felt like if I had forced it the thing would have bent or broke...oh, and the driver's side windshield wiper fell off.
Worst part about it was the dealership...they blame me EVERYTIME!!! Seems to be a common theme with the Toyotas, the dealers are VERY TOUGH to deal with...never had that problem with the dealers with the Chevy's, Ford's, or the Dodge I've had in the past (I'm a high mileage driver like you and get a new truck every 2 years--at least I used to be a high mileage driver, this one's in the shop too much).
Tim

[Fatty]

Originally Posted by tawood

What a nightmare...first week, the paint came off the hood at the spray wash (see my post for pic: '07 w/nightmare paint), next ECM went bad, then my 8 year old pulled the interior door panel off while closing the back door, then I'm driving down my driveway in the snow (at about 5 mph mind you) and there is this jerking feeling w/STRONG smoke odor: burnt VSC/auto LSD, then my tailgate won't open and it felt like if I had forced it the thing would have bent or broke...oh, and the driver's side windshield wiper fell off.
Worst part about it was the dealership...they blame me EVERYTIME!!! Seems to be a common theme with the Toyotas, the dealers are VERY TOUGH to deal with...never had that problem with the dealers with the Chevy's, Ford's, or the Dodge I've had in the past (I'm a high mileage driver like you and get a new truck every 2 years--at least I used to be a high mileage driver, this one's in the shop too much).
Tim

I would seriously consider exercising my rights under the state lemon laws if I was in your situation.

Let's be real about things.....

1) All manufacturers have a spectrum of products....some vehicles come off the line and function virtually flawlessly, some come off and have nothing but problems. I've owned Jeep, Ford, Nissan, Toyota and my father has covered the rest (Dodge, Chevy, etc). You can find bad apples among ALL of them.

2) Dealerships and warranties are all the same nowadays. You'd better be a great negotiator and half lawyer if you plan on making a warranty claim. That's because the dealer isn't the parent company anymore. If the dealer turns in a warranty claim and Toyota denies it, then the dealer is stuck eating the cost. That's why they fight so hard with you first, so that they can reduce the number of out of pocket services that they eat when the manufacturer denies it.

3) Ford products are cheaply made. I'm a mustang fanatic and I can simply tell you that beyond my love for mustangs, my loyalty stops there. Ford interiors are just as cheap or cheaper than any out there. They creek, rattle, squeek, etc, and the overall fit/finish is severly less than say a German or Japanese manufacturer.

4) The F-150 is tried and true. Ford has had many more generations to iron out most of the bugs with their F-150 line. There's some credence that Toyota is experiencing the typical problems of a new product line. The previous Tundra line isn't even in the same ballpark, so for all intents and purposes, the full size Tundra is 2 years old.

5) My advice to you, being a new Tundra owner, is go with the Ford. I say that because if that's what you're comfortable with, and you're actually using it to put food on the table, then stick to the known evil. If I have issues with my Tundra, it's not going to effect my paycheck. I personally value the other things in the Tundra (power, 6 speed tranny, fuel mileage, room, etc), as I don't beat my truck to hell and back using it for work.

6) My company trucks are Nissan. I can tell you that we've had great experiences with our Titan fleets, ESPECIALLY at high mileage (when compared to Ford or Chevy). Granted, most of our guys in work trucks are not towing 8,000 lbs ever day and are not putting 3/4 of a ton in the beds on a regular basis, but they perform well for what their intent has been.

Every truck line has issues and you can find specific examples of a bad individual in any sizeable group of products. The question becomes are the systematic failure(s) for the Tundra in line with what you intend to use them better or worse than the typical systematic failures for the F-150 (and attributes as well).

[Codiac]

I have had my Tundra since November and it has 4,400 miles on it. No issues to really complain about so far. I have had one little paint protector sticker replaced on the rear door frame. I have towed right up to the max tow limit (10,300lbs) and it handled it great. I have hauled my CanAm 650 Outlander in the bed about 10 times with no issues. Tailgate looks to be weak design but mine hasn't failed yet. I did get some bed bounce on a choppy concrete hwy but not anywhere else. As for the frame being weak...that is BS. C-Channel is standard on heavy duty trucks all the way up to tractor trailers. I have no issue with a C-Channel frame. I have owned Dodge and Chevy's all of my life. This is the first Toyota I have owned and so far I like it. It out performs my 2001 Dodge 4x4 with ease. My 01 had just under 70,000 miles and the front end was completely worn out. It also couldn't handle a load at all. My ATV made it squat like it was fully loaded...not so in the Tundra.

I still don't have enough time or miles in the Tundra to say that it is the best truck out there yet. So far it has been a good truck and the power is unbeatable as you know.

Good luck!!

[ForDorToY]

I think the paint thing is common with Toyota...pretty much everyone I see has orange peel, or just plain peels off.

It also seems like the Ford dealers try harder to make you happy. I recently bought a new house and changed dealers for service and have been very happy with it so far. I dont believe they know what kind of volume I buy and in general I see mostly happy customers the few times I've been to my new dealer. Just drop the truck off and they either give me a ride to work or they loan me a car...

Toyota on the other hand seems to think their sh!t doesnt stink. When we buy from the local dealer usually the sales people are kids that qualify you for a real saleman. That kinda irks me. Service is polite, but seems to take forever. My wife hates that they try to load the whole van with customers before she's taken home and they never offer a loaner.

Sorry to hear about the truck. I have had pretty much nothing but good luck with my Fords, but have a friend with a problem 02 S Crew, so I know they all have a bad apple.

Originally Posted by tawood

What a nightmare...first week, the paint came off the hood at the spray wash (see my post for pic: '07 w/nightmare paint), next ECM went bad, then my 8 year old pulled the interior door panel off while closing the back door, then I'm driving down my driveway in the snow (at about 5 mph mind you) and there is this jerking feeling w/STRONG smoke odor: burnt VSC/auto LSD, then my tailgate won't open and it felt like if I had forced it the thing would have bent or broke...oh, and the driver's side windshield wiper fell off.
Worst part about it was the dealership...they blame me EVERYTIME!!! Seems to be a common theme with the Toyotas, the dealers are VERY TOUGH to deal with...never had that problem with the dealers with the Chevy's, Ford's, or the Dodge I've had in the past (I'm a high mileage driver like you and get a new truck every 2 years--at least I used to be a high mileage driver, this one's in the shop too much).
Tim