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Toyota falling behind the competition

62K views 303 replies 108 participants last post by  Flyer 
#1 ·
I had an '07 Limited Crewmax that I loved, apart from the low payload. I waited for the "all new" generation to come out with hopes that it would have some upgrades to compete with the others in its class. Mostly, better fuel economy (diesel or cylinder shut down), higher payloads or an HD model, bigger fuel tank, longer bed on crew, fixes for the driveshaft and front diff issues etc. None of that happened, just new skin and interior.

I ended up trading for a new Ram 2500 with the 5.7l Hemi, mostly for the payload to handle my trailer better. As I feared, the Ram has suffered from some reliability and quality issues, and the Tundra pulled my trailer just as well (although overloaded). So I started looking at Tundras again.

I have to say that I'm disappointed with the latest generation Tundra. Frankly, I preferred the old 2nd Gen. There is nothing better about the 3rd gen. Everything that was standard on the old Limited is now an extra cost option. The new center console is a waste of space. A rear seat that no longer moves, but flips up with no underneath storage. The floor isn't even flat. The trip/info computer screen is small and shows minimal info and the radio/gps is outdated. The only thing going for it now is the reliability factor and finally a larger fuel tank.

Unfortunately that's not enough for me anymore. The Rams' interior is miles ahead in comfort and ergonomics. The radio and EVIC (info center) screens are huge and have pages and pages of info and options. I get better MPG in a 2500 truck that weighs 900lbs more and get a 6.5' box with a crew cab. Not to mention the extra 1k in payload. (I know, not fair to compare with a 3/4ton truck, but 1300lbs is pathetic.

So I have to ask (Mike Sweers, you listening??) when is Toyota going to get back into the game? All the complaints owners have on here about the 2nd gens were ignored (apart from the fuel tank finally)

How about that diesel? Fuel savings? Higher payloads? Bigger boxes on Crewcabs? More storage? A useful back seat? A crewmax with a 6.5' box and closer to 2k in payload would sell like candy to a fat kid. I want out of this Ram but Toyota is making it very hard. Pay more money to get so much less.

Sorry, rant over.
 
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#269 ·
I'm in the process of upgrading from a 2011 tundra double cab limited to a 2016 double cab limited. I'm surprised they removed features on the 2016 like the front color matched bumper, side mirror turn signals, power folding mirrors, upper glove box, sub woofer, etc.... Those features are not even an option to buy on the double cab.
 
#273 ·
Need further proof of this threads title?

The Tundra finished last or second to last in most categories.

What's the Best Light-Duty Truck for Towing 2016: Texas Truck Showdown - PickupTrucks.com News

Now I'm not saying Toyota sent the right truck model, they didn't and it's a head scratcher for sure, however the outcome in most of the categories wouldn't have been different.

This is really disappointing, and I hope Swears sees this. He better have something up his sleeve for the Chicago Auto Show next month...
 
#274 · (Edited)
geez, that 6.2 GMC was impressive, smoked everyone and got right near the top MPG. 5.8 0-60 empty and then 6.9 loaded with 1750 lbs :eek:

tundra needs to go on a little bit of a diet at some point.

1200lb payload for the tundra?

I can't believe the GMC was faster 0-60 loaded with 1750lbs than the tundra was enpty, LOL. That 6.2 8-speed combo must be a beast...
 
#275 ·
#276 ·
it would be nice to get that GMC 6.2 performance and features (LED, Carplay, etc) but with toyota reliability and build quality, sign me up for that.

just not sure how sold I am on GMC for build quality and reliability. My business partner has a SLT caynon and I have to say, it seems pretty well put together, better than I thought anyway.

I bet that 6.2 with a borla would sound phuckin awesome...>:D

it's on my short list for next year, along with the improved 2017 tundra (hint, hint toyota)...
 
#278 ·
We had a 08 Denali Yukon XL with the 6.2 and 6 speed and it was a beast...those LS motors make great power...problem with GM's line of LS motors is they have weak valve trains...lifters are poor design and Valves have hollow stems and tend to snap and cycle the valve hat through the piston...they had to replace our 6.2 at 75K under powertrain warranty...AWD started growling right after...we bailed and I got my Tundra...HOPEFULLY Toyota will up their game and build a truck that is on step with what is out there today...
 
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#279 ·
In the past, I have had GM products. It has been a few years, so maybe they have improved. My main issue with GM was their service. Any one can have a few issues with a new vehicle. I had plenty with my GM's and a few with Toyota. The difference for me was that when I would take my GM to the dealer for warranty service, it was always a disappointment. It was either they didn't fix the problem because everything worked fine. For instance, I took my SS Camaro in three times because the horn didn't work. Every time, when I would pick it up and I would show the service guy the horn didn't work, he would say the same thing. "The mechanic is gone. Can you bring it back tomorrow?"

Or, I would get the "Its not covered by warranty." Example warped rotors at 1500 miles. They tried to get me to pay and claimed it was abuse. That is until I pulled out the TSB on the defective rotors. One idiot looked at the TSB and said, " Oh you know about that."

The last thing was the "card." "We had to order the part. Keep this card and when the part comes in we will call you." Of course you never got a call and it was a run around.

Generally when I take my Toyota in for warranty service, it is done right the first time. Just an antidotal story, I mentioned these issue to my secretary. She bought a $60,000 Denali about six months ago anyway. She has taken her rig in so many times for the same problems, that they never seem to fix. She has also gotten the "we ordered the parts and will notify you" story. Even after installing the so called new parts, she continues to have issues. At this point she is so fed up, that she may trade it in on a sequoia.

So yes, I also would like to see Toyota bring their A game to the tundra as far as a bit more HP or torque or minor interior items. However, I will take reliability and good service over more stuff with less reliability and bad service. My time is too valuable to be going back and forth from the dealer service dept who can't get it right and I use my rigs to explore and go to remote places. Hence, reliability is my number one concern. My Toyota's have never left me stranded. I sure can't say the same for my Ford, Chrysler or GM products.

Everyone has to make choices for themselves and their situations. I will admit chevy has made some nice motors that just plain scream.

Cheers, Steve
 
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#281 ·
Steve - I haven't seen enough from the domestics to make me want to get rid of my Tundra and jump back into that pool.:)

Cheers,

Frank
 
#280 ·
I remember reading car and driver's long term review of 6.2 gmc and the engine blew up, and also in their vette due to extra metal piece in the engine. I did consider trading in for a 6.2 denali and a raptor before, glad i didnt. Its not always greener on the other side...
 
#282 · (Edited)
I have a few friends at work that have new,15, chevys. One is a colorado. I was showing the old man how to use the touch screen and 99% of the time I thought what a POS this is. From the time you press something to the time it actually responded was like 5 secs. Might not sound like alot but press menu from the radio screen and have to wait 5 secs or more for the menu to pop up is ridiculous. The other guy have a 2500 duramax fully loaded. Its been to the dealer about 5-6 times in a 3-4 month time period. Another has a 15 denali same thing, garbage. Chevy doesnt take pride in what they build anymore. And for some ungodly reason they wont go to over head cams. They ran out of LS numbers for their engines so they brought back the LT engine, WTF. Chevy sent the 6.2, but probably forgot to mention that its only available on the LTZ. So you cant get thier top of the line engine in their entry level or mid level truck. You have to dish out $45k+, without options, if you want the 6.2. But yet people eat this shit up.
 
#283 ·
I shopped every truck dealer before ending up in the 2015 1794. Liked a few others but loved this one. I haven't compared my truck to another one since. I never have buyer remorse because I simply stopped looking at others. That includes the 2016 model. I don't care what it has, it won't change the options in my truck.

Buy the truck you like. They all have pros and cons. I drive down the road with the attitude that I bought the best. You should all do the same...even if that means its a different make. When I see a GMC Denali or a Raptor, I always stop and talk "Truck" because those are both very nice trucks.
 
#285 ·
So I just sold my 2012 Tundra 2x cab yesterday! 5.7 4X4. Before it ...I had a 2007 Tacoma. Sold the taco because I would have destroyed it with the work I was doing at the time and an upgrade to the Tundra made perfect sense. After almost 4 years of ownership and well basically doing absolutely everything you would do with a pick up....I decided to sell it. As far as reliability is concerned , hands down the Tundra wins. I started thinking about selling it a few months ago and started shopping for a new truck. I will tell you that I must have pissed of A LOT of sales people because they want to close a deal that day and I was not buying until I sat in a truck that made me feel the happiest. I will not settle AT ALL. I drove every full size truck out there from half to full ton. Every gas engine and every diesel. I will tell you that the other trucks are years ahead of the Tundra in so many aspects. I don't want to hear anyone say that I am bashing Toyota because you have no idea what else is sitting in my garage and a family member is even personal friends with Mr. Toyota of North America. I will say that I never found the perfect truck. It does not exist......yet! I will tell you that checking out all of those trucks did make me angry that Toyota was not further along. I will tell you that the Tundra is the best Light duty passenger truck out there. Most people buy trucks these days and use it like a car. That is the market was after and they created the product to meet those demands. Sure you can use a Tundra for a lot of things truck related but most other trucks do those things better (if you can keep them running!) Kind of a weird market right now. If any of the domestics can fix reliability issues, it will be a blood bath. If you can get the Ram 3500 crew cab with the 6.4 hemi and the Aisin (toyota!) transmission and at minimum the SLT package...you will be in heaven. The truck is solid as a rock but with reliability issues it may as well just be a big rock! Also...the 2500 is supposed to have the new rear coil spring suspension for better ride but the leafs on the 3500 ride so much smoother. Go figure.
 
#286 ·
^^^ "I will tell you that the other trucks are years ahead of the Tundra in so many aspects." Like what? For me, I will take reliability over gadgets that I will hardly use. There are markets for everyone and some want all the gadgets just to say they have it. Others dont care for it or use it.
 
#288 ·
I would never buy a newer GM. There electronics are some of the worst I've seen on the market. Yeah my SR5 doesn't have all the bells and whistles, I can add what I want or need. In my area they have some of the best resale value. A truck should be used as a truck.
 
#289 ·
I actually like the looks of the current GM trucks. I would never pay money for one, and I have owned them, but they look nice. And I'm sure they are when you have a nice new one like the testers.

But a good portion of the ratings are based on subjective criteria. "The styling looks dated" and "I don't like the dash layout". Personally I have never liked the GM center dash controls. Too many small buttons with just symbols on them.

As far as payload, I've never heard a real explanation how an Ecoboost can have a rating upwards of 2000 and Tundra's are in the 1300-1400 range. Is there something in that Ford that is physically much stronger than a Toyota? Or are the numbers and tests manipulated to be at the top?

While I am not blindly loyal to a brand, Ford owners anyone, I will stick with my Toyota for now.
 
#290 ·
As far as payload, I've never heard a real explanation how an Ecoboost can have a rating upwards of 2000 and Tundra's are in the 1300-1400 range. Is there something in that Ford that is physically much stronger than a Toyota? Or are the numbers and tests manipulated to be at the top?

While I am not blindly loyal to a brand, Ford owners anyone, I will stick with my Toyota for now.
I have always wondered about this also. I was told one time that a frame rating (ie. 1/2 ton 3/4 ton ect.) and it components can only handle a specific amount of weight and since our truck weighs more overall that less of that weight is allocated towards the payload.
That is apparently why a Hummer has such a low rated capacity for the size truck that it is and so on.....
 
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#300 ·
RoyB: Sounds like your safety margin is very thin, and yes, the tow ratings are a joke. Instead of "tow" ratings, they should be "pull" ratings. The truck can pull a space shuttle, but not tow a space shuttle. Always felt confident towing our Nash TT with an HD truck...no worries about overloading or breaking the drivetrain. Does your truck squat much when hooked up and loaded?
 
#303 · (Edited)
I just finished shopping for a new truck. I was coming from a GMC, so GM products were crossed off my list and they didn't have a competitive rear seat in the 1/2 ton when stacked up against the CM. The Dodge crewcab didn't have a competitive rear seat either and I have 2 very tall boys. That left the F-150 Supercrew and the Tundra Crewmax. I drove the Ford and honestly liked it. It was a nice truck with lots of bells and whistles and has a beautiful interior. But, I'm old fashioned and I couldn't get past the aluminum bed or the ecoboost motor vs a real V8. Back to back, I personally liked the Tundra for those "old school" reasons and I honestly liked the way it drove and rode better as well. Yes, it is more truck like and I guess you've gotta be ok with that. As for reliability and durability, the odds are in my favor based on personal anecdotal experience with Toyotas but other long term data collectors rank the Tundra highly as well. I tried a GMC and maybe I'll try something else after my new truck hits 200K+ miles in 10 years or so. Gotta be happy with what you're driving though, you (and I) are paying the bill. :)
 
#304 ·
I'm holding off on buying a truck. I kinda want to put a bed camper on at some point (and sell my travel trailer) so the diesels make sense. It seems the Ford has the highest payload, though the Dodge is okay and the Cummins is solid. The Tundra is going to be the most reliable but the payload is not great and the mileage is not either. So I'm waiting a bit, just to see what the next Tundra brings. I have never been too excited about buying a Ford or Dodge but will see. I think even the gas Ford has a pretty good payload. Toyota should just contra with Cummins and put the 5.9 diesel in there, while giving the gasser a bit more power and increasing it's payload.
 
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