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Has the FFV issue been fixed in 2015s?

24K views 106 replies 34 participants last post by  KevinK 
#1 ·
Hey guys, I have searched this forum for weeks and found a lot of great information. I am in the market to get a truck and I am very interested in the Tundra.

The one thing that worries me are the FFV threads. It seems like it has affected 12'-14' models and although, from what I have read, it is not all or maybe not even a high percent of FFV vehicles, I do not want to take that chance.

I need a 4wd and it looks like all the vehicles here in gulf states have FFV...Except for the TRD Pro that I would have to order.

Has there been any issues with 2015s and the FFV issue or has Toyota corrected the problem?

Thanks!
 
#3 ·
I have a 14 and haven't had the issue. I don't know exactly what the problem is....but I am almost certain its computer logic. I use to think there was a alcohol sensor on the FFV but I'm now pretty certain that the ECM determines alcohol concentration based on how the vehicle runs and other variables such as fuel pressure, etc. There are obviously issues with some vehicles and the software not accurately calculating the proper percentage of alcohol in the fuel. I don't think its necessarily a difference in hardware between the 14 and 15 or even the 14 from a 12 model year.

Just my opinion. I maybe wrong.
 
#8 · (Edited)
You are correct, there is no actual sensor. The ECM makes an alcohol calculation based upon data from the exhaust gases. In a significant percentage of 2012-2015 FFV Tundras, that calculation is not properly made and the engine then runs in E85 mode with E10/E0 gas. There have been no changes in the engine or ECM from 2012-2015, so it is only a matter of time until 2015s start popping up with issues. Look on all the FFV threads. There are plenty of 2014 Tundras with Flex Fuel related problems. The problems include loss of power, rough cold starts and poor mileage. For the most part it seems the FFV issues start manifesting themselves at around 8-10K miles and when temps drop. So expect a whole slew of 2015 FFV complaints to come rolling in next fall.

And for all the FFV/Moon Landing/Holocaust deniers out there, just stop. The Holocaust happened, Neil Armstrong landed on the moon and a certain percentage of 2012+ Flex Fuel Tundras have problems with engine perfomance. I'm confident that Toyota has issued multiple Flex Fuel TSBs for a reason.

Caveat Emptor
 
#5 ·
I think there is a lot of mis-formation concerning FFV issues on the 2014 (and 2015) models. I am not convinced it exists.

It has not been a problem on my 2014 Tundra, nor the 40 or so 2014 Tundra owners I have spoken to directly in person. There has been a couple with FFV issues that I am aware of for previous years models (previous to 2014).

Even in the Gulf State area a dealer should be able to get you one without FFV if that is a concern.
 
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#6 ·
not sure what you are talking about with FFV problems. All hype IMHO.

there was a flash for ECU and I live in the cold no problems here ever. All motors run rich the first couple of miles.

A couple guys have bad MPG and complained..with their modded intakes, not tuned exhausts with misaligned lifts and they complain. Go figure- they blame whatever they can.
 
#12 ·
I have a 14, and I've not had any issues. I think it's kinda ironic how many people claim Toyota reliability, and then turn around on this issue and act as if this is a known, wide spread problem that plagues a large portion of these trucks and people should be wary of buying a late model Tundra. I just don't believe this to be all that accurate.

IMO, as an observer, most of this is internet forum paranoia. I'm sure there are issues, but much more isolated than suggested. I've noticed that there's lots of people concerned with this issue, but they don't even know what it is. They're just worried because someone told them they should be. So now there's people scared of something they don't even understand, and they are telling others to watch out for what they were told to watch out for.
 
#14 ·
Well I sure don't know and doesn't matter I have a 15. Bought before joining forum. That said I hope I don't have issues and as of now none. I know I won't worry about it at all because life is too short. There are many problems much worse than if my truck does develop problem. If it does and can't be fixed I'll trade it and get something else. But at this time I plan on running it for 2 years and about 50 to 60k miles and the sell it and see what I want to replace it with.
 
#17 ·
2012, 31k and it has been in twice for AIP issues, first time it took over a week, second was just a re flash and I just got an email that it needs another
 
#19 ·
#62 ·
I just clicked on one of those and read where a guy is getting 14.6 mpg on the highway at 75 mph. He is now convinced he has a FFV issue and is mad at Toyota because he thinks he should be getting 16-17 at that speed. I got news for you, that's pretty good mileage for theses trucks, and I can't believe an owner hasn't figured that out by now. My point is that many people seem to think they bought a Prius and are looking for something to blame when the realize that their truck doesn't get 17 or 18 mpg like they mistakenly thought it would. The FFV thing seems to be an easy way out for many.

If you buy a Tundra, or are thinking about it, don't be mistakenly led to believe that you will get decent mileage, you won't. It has nothing to do with FFV and everything to do with the motor being an outdated pig. You will get 13-15 on a good day, like the sticker says. If you tow, drive aggressively, drive in the city, or warm up your truck, you can expect single digit mileage on occasion.

I'm know many have legit issues, but clearly there is a lot of misguided ire with this issue. All I know is if it were that bad, I'd trade the truck off immediately. JMO.
 
#21 ·
dunno, but all the TSBs are for 2012+ FFV Tundras. I've only seen a few reports of 2011s experiencing the classic symptoms. One of those owners finally got Toyota to replace his fuel pump and it at least temporarily fixed the problem.
 
#25 ·
Thanks for the update. Glad it worked out for you. It seems like most people who get the fuel pump replaced are seeing improved performance. Time will only tell if that particular "fix" is permanent. Judging from posts on this site, it seems like Toyota is replacing pumps not because they were defective from the start, but because the trucks ran the pumps in E85 mode so long on E10/E0 gas that it effectively wore out the pumps a bit to the point that they were no longer creating the optimum 30-41psi required. The low fuel pressure was causing the rough cold starts and lack of power. Just as an FYI to all, E85 is less dense than E10/E0, so the ECM pumps at a much higher rate (140%) in E85 mode compared to E10/E0. So if you are in E85 mode you are burning through more gas than you should resulting in worse mpgs and overworking your fuel pump.

To my knowledge, the fuel pump has no actual role in calculating the alch % or in the FFV system as a whole, other than that it is a two speed pump that varies speed based upon perceived fuel type.
 
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#26 ·
I had a 2013 FFV 4x4 5.7 and for the first 20,000 miles it did not give me any issues but once I got over 20,000 miles I started to have the classic symptoms so rather than dealing with toyota on the issue I traded it in on a 2015 non FFV.
 
#37 ·
To answer the OP and threads question, no the ffv isn't fix and DON'T GET A FFV TUNDRA period! As for the two guys arguing about this crap, does it really matter? Toyota hasn't found a fix and until they do don't worry about it.
 
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#38 ·
Problem is there isn't a problem and a couple guys think they have a problem...SKY is falling.

Have they fixed the water pump issue should be the concern. 100k+ FFV all using the same damn fuel pumps on the OEM trucks and no problems.

Guy mods and beats the crap out of his truck - its Toyotas problem that I lost some power - sorry but its your fault you changed the factory specs.
 
#48 ·
So the two posts you have done about FFV owners you can go get flying fvcked.

My 2014 FFV, has 3600 miles and is bone stock with factory paper filter and gasp,factory suspension, wheels, tires, stock exhaust too! I went from easy 18mpg on the hwy to 14mpg with 0 changes, and I have never put ethanol in my truck. Am I crazy? I'm not some 18yr old kid that is beating on my 38k truck. I'm a grown ass man with a family. So what's your explanation genius? Where did the 4mpg go??

I also get that some folks don't have an issue, that's awesome. But I'm quite sure that those who were in our shoes with new trucks who put their hard earned money to buy a product that is not working as advertised, they would be a bit pissed too and they would vent bc at this point there is no answer and lots of run around with just resets and hope for the best.
 
#45 ·
It isn't personal...until someone makes it personal. When person A posts that they are experiencing a particular problem, and then person B posts how they aren't having the problem and accuse person A of abusing their vehicle or creating/spreading hype - one could see how it becomes personal.

Back to the nature at hand. The OP asked about the FFV problem, with emphasis on 2014 and 2015 model years. Some people have chimed in stating their problems, including a member with a 2014. If you don't have the problem, then that's great. But you can't assume that just because YOU don't have a problem, then it is impossible for others to have a problem. The guys with FFV problems aren't saying EVERY flex fuel Tundra has a problem. We're simply saying that WE are having problems, and you may want to consider this if you're considering purchasing a FFV Tundra in the near future.

BTW, this problem is published a lot of places, including this forum, the solutions forum, and edmonds, to name a few.

And I'm not trying to attack you, Rincon. Just wanted to use your quote to explain why people can get upset on these forums.

::drops microphone, walks out::
 
#49 ·
I have gotten a kick out of reading the last couple pages. Now on to my theory, running e85 causes the truck to burn more fuel to make near same / or less power. Now if your ecm thinks its got 78% alcohol (like mine) although running e10, it feeds more fuel thus causing a rough idle at 1st start and smooths as it warms up allowing it to burn the fuel easier. I have not gotten the less mileage till I recently put bigger heavier tires. Maybe coincidence , I dunno. What I do know is the colder it is the longer it has a rough start/idle. Here is a video of me remote starting my truck. Temp was 23°-26° . The longest it has even went before smoothing out sorta. 11-12 seconds. Also my truck is at the dealer now to have a reset done in the morning. And they gave me a weak Camry to drive.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B251KprCLHDHZm5zeXp3SFoxNEk/edit?usp=docslist_api
 
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#58 ·
I wish that were true. Unfortunately "TSS" is just a package added to the truck. The only TSS trucks that aren't FFV are 2wd. All 4wd trucks around here are FFV except for the TRD Pro. Trust me, I searched EVERYWHERE for a non FFV 4wd. The closest place I could get one was in GA. I finally gave up because 4wd was more important to me than getting a non FFV motor. And I only got a TSS because it had the best looking stock wheels IMO.
 
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#56 ·
One way to maybe figure what its doing is to have a wideband read your exhaust. I totally agree. I paid too much for my truck for it to do ANYTHING out of the ordinary. First had weird rough idle at about 11,500 miles.
 
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#57 ·
Yah, I' have had the poor mileage (7.2mpg city) consistently and the loss of power at super high alch % readings since imy Tundra was brand new/stock, but I didn't get my first rough cold start until I hit 11,300 miles. I've seen reports of guys having the poor mileage and loss of power on new trucks, but it seems like most of the reports of rough starts start hitting when the trucks hit around 10K miles or 3/4 of a year of ownership.

I'll post up a video of my rough start tomorrow. It's completely ridiculous.
 
#59 ·
Kinda pisses me off that I didn't realize you could get non FFV Pros. That might have tipped the scale for me. I love my blue CM but I might have been able to live with a white Pro. Guess Im just going to hope I don't run into any FFV issues. If I do I'm trading my shit in on the 2016 Raptor.
 
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