To me a small V6 trying to accomplish the same thing as a large displacement V8 doesn't seem to bode well for long term durability and I have no interest in betting 36,000 dollars on it.
I agree w/ this, to a point. Modern diesels use turbos to get much more torque than they could ever muster if running NA. I guess my thought is that there's no reason a small gas motor can't be engineered for longevity w/ turbos, but I wouldn't trust an "add on" for the same. I'd probably trust an EB more than I would an aftermarket supercharger, simply because the EB was designed for it from the ground up. One thing for sure... I'd like those turbos when towing at 8000 ft, assuming that they hold up and don't overheat.
The EB has overheating issues, sputtering issues, misfiring issues, bed bounce issues, fried cat issues, and fuel dilution issues. Ford basically copied the Volvo T6 application and tried to beef it up for towing and tried to shove direct injection into it at the same time. While the engine is a great idea on paper, in the real world it gets the same or worse mileage in every condition. Within 1800 miles of normal driving and no towing with my previous EB, I had high fuel dilution according to my oil analysis. These engines were not designed from the ground up, they were copied and improvised.
Now the Tundra 5.7l was designed from the ground up, everything in the current Tundra was best in class when it was released back in 06-07. Have the other makers improved to compete? Yep, but that's the name of the game. If Toyota makes a better frame than current, keeps the same engine and adds direct injection.... you will have one hell of a truck.
Competition is good for consumers.
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Within 1800 miles of normal driving and no towing with my previous EB, I had high fuel dilution according to my oil analysis. These engines were not designed from the ground up, they were copied and improvised.
I haven't looked too closely at the EB, so my knowledge is limited. I've only spoken to guys towing campers w/ them, and they seem to love 'em. Ford guys also seem pretty enamoured. I guess it's a hit or miss proposition. I'm not one for gambling w/ big expenses like a vehicle, so I guess I'd pass at this point if they're having those issues.
FWIW, I'm driving an '08 Sierra crew w/ 5.3/4-spd/3.73, and tow a camper that weighs ~7k lbs loaded. I've had zero issues, but excess towing power isn't a concern It's hard to imagine how a motor with less output, like the 5.3, never overheats or has issues towing this kind of weight (and I've passed over 10k feet w/ this combo), but the EB (w/ much higher specs on paper) is overheating? I would not be happy...
Ford basically copied the Volvo T6 application and tried to beef it up for towing and tried to shove direct injection into it at the same time.
The t-6 uses an inline 5 cyl. No common parts are in the 3.5l Ecoboost. The Ecoboost should be plenty durable though. It has the same bore and stroke as the 5.0 Coyote. So most of its internals are "five-liter strong". It's really the electrical/programming of the computers that is at fault for its issues. I haven't heard of any real mechanical issues, it all seems to be electronic/ sensor faults. If Ford did their homework, they could have a few software re-flashes, and that motor will run a long time without issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prime81
Now the Tundra 5.7l was designed from the ground up, everything in the current Tundra was best in class when it was released back in 06-07. Have the other makers improved to compete? Yep, but that's the name of the game. If Toyota makes a better frame than current, keeps the same engine and adds direct injection.... you will have one hell of a truck.
^This. Tundra came out in fall of '06 and has rocked the half ton world every day since. Even today, nothing compares. Chevy and GMC had the entire time to plan something comparable, and they just released a "all new" truck that took them six years to develop, and it still looks like the same truck with different body panels. The most innovative part on that truck is the bumper!
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The 5.3 is here to stay for a long while and it is a proven engine from what I've seen. Although I have seen some indication of them not lasting much more than 100k without some work needed. But as such that is pretty normal for today's manufacturers.
Just google Ecoboost problems, you'll find lots of information and headaches.
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The t-6 uses an inline 5 cyl. No common parts are in the 3.5l Ecoboost. The Ecoboost should be plenty durable though. It has the same bore and stroke as the 5.0 Coyote. So most of its internals are "five-liter strong". It's really the electrical/programming of the computers that is at fault for its issues. I haven't heard of any real mechanical issues, it all seems to be electronic/ sensor faults. If Ford did their homework, they could have a few software re-flashes, and that motor will run a long time without issue.
The T6 was originally a straight six twin turbo application dating back to 1998. The design of the twin turbos was copied, remember Ford bought Volvo a while back and recently sold them. Around this time was when Ford released twin turbo applications... as well Ford is also utilizing the Volvo platform for safety reasons obviously in the Taurus and their smaller cars. Link below shows the engines according to years.
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Chevy and GMC had the entire time to plan something comparable, and they just released a "all new" truck that took them six years to develop, and it still looks like the same truck with different body panels. The most innovative part on that truck is the bumper!
I'm not terribly excited about the upcoming GM trucks, but the power-plants are completely new w/ direct injection. They kept the 5.3 and 6.2 displacements, but completely re-engineered them for DI. No specs on the new 5.3 yet, but their "quote" on the 6.2 for the Corvette reveal was that there are two parts carried over from the fuel-injected version. I guess we'll see...
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The T6 was originally a straight six twin turbo application dating back to 1998. The design of the twin turbos was copied, remember Ford bought Volvo a while back and recently sold them. Around this time was when Ford released twin turbo applications... as well Ford is also utilizing the Volvo platform for safety reasons obviously in the Taurus and their smaller cars. Link below shows the engines according to years.
I know about Volvo and Ford's relationship, and about their platform sharing. Its one of the reasons there is no room in the new Taurus or Explorer. Both are very wide outside with a narrow interior, due to the incredibly thick pillars. However, Ford did not use Volvo's Turbo tech, that's all I was getting at. They use Honeywell Turbos made by Garrett in the EcoBoost motors. The only common thing between the two motors referenced is the fact that there are two turbos. Yes both Ford and Volvo have Twin turbo motors that can be used in transverse and longitudinal applications, but that's actually tech that Ford developed for use in its European cars, along with Volvo's and Jaguars. All it means is that the Turbo's and exhaust manifolds are either integrated, or just a more compact setup, so that they can be installed in just about any engine bay.
Anyway, I'm actually quite a fan of the (theoretical) capabilities of the EcoBoost. It is probably one of the most modern engines out there, and the fact that they use it in a friggin pickup truck is cool! (I think at least). Yea, it has problems, but so did early build 5.7s (flying camshafts anyone?) Toyota definitely does a better job handling problems and fixing them, and customer service (from what I hear) is not a strong suit for EcoBoost owners. Lots are being told that their truck rated to tow 11,300lbs is being "abused" when they tow a camper that weighs half that or less.
And, there is one reason why I would never own a twin turbo six in a truck... THE SOUND! Can't cut out an EcoBoost muffler and expect it to sound anything like a V8, so its a no go for me.
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I was referring to the idea and design, the Volvo engine platform was patented so Ford basically imitated the design... but it was not a coincidence that this happened after Ford acquired Volvo.
The Ecoboost is a very nice engine in theory, unfortunately it's a Ford product.
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Last edited by prime81; 01-16-2013 at 11:52 PM.
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I grew up in a Ford family. My last truck was an '10 F150 that had a few issues. I came to Toyota because of how bad the dealership treats customers after the sale. My front bumper started rusting 2 months after I got the truck and even Ford couldnt get 4 different dealers to replace it. I was tired of being treated like crap. So far the Toyota dealer has been awesome!!!
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My only point of interest of an ecoboost owner is one that stated he bought a new F150eb with the highest towing capacity 3:73 gears But opted out of it coming with the tow mirrors due to it having a negative affect on MPG's! They really obsess over MPG's to the point of worrying about mirror size vs safety on the highway. If you can afford a new truck a big camper I think the last thing is MPG's to a point, But mirror size, come on!
You tube it and you can find the funniest things on there about the EB mpg's not being what it was advertised to be. I know what i bought - 13/17 thats the end of my story and I dont complain since my last ridgeline was only getting 16 country driving.
This guy is just silly - texting was bad this is worse - he has no clue
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Yep, I had a customer with an Eco with an aftermarket exhaust....it really did sound kind of weak. In the vid above it kinda sounds like an old motorcycle.
The t-6 uses an inline 5 cyl. No common parts are in the 3.5l Ecoboost. The Ecoboost should be plenty durable though. It has the same bore and stroke as the 5.0 Coyote. So most of its internals are "five-liter strong". It's really the electrical/programming of the computers that is at fault for its issues. I haven't heard of any real mechanical issues, it all seems to be electronic/ sensor faults. If Ford did their homework, they could have a few software re-flashes, and that motor will run a long time without issue.
^This. Tundra came out in fall of '06 and has rocked the half ton world every day since. Even today, nothing compares. Chevy and GMC had the entire time to plan something comparable, and they just released a "all new" truck that took them six years to develop, and it still looks like the same truck with different body panels. The most innovative part on that truck is the bumper!
Wow!!!! I just read all that about the ecoboost. That is insane how.much bs ford is putting their customers thru!!!!! I NEVER liked ford NEVER, but I was impressed with the technology of the ecoboost when I first heard about it, but now I'm not at all. I'm sure it can b fixed but it still isnt as of now it is still considered a tsb not a recall. Tundra has its problems but not like this. It's amazing that the f-150 is still the highest selling truck!!!!! I've said it b4 n ill say it again I luv the tundra n I will never by a different truck until I'm proven wrong.
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It's hard to imagine how a motor with less output, like the 5.3, never overheats or has issues towing this kind of weight (and I've passed over 10k feet w/ this combo), but the EB (w/ much higher specs on paper) is overheating? I would not be happy...
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