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Have you ever had an FFV problem and was it fixedf?

  • No, never with my FFV vehicle.

    Votes: 73 59.3%
  • Yes, it was fixed.

    Votes: 9 7.3%
  • Yes, it was never fixed.

    Votes: 41 33.3%

Have you ever had an FFV problem?

40K views 114 replies 42 participants last post by  Toyota03 
#1 · (Edited)
There are quite a few threads about FFV vehicles and ETOH percent and performance problems. But like a lot of things the sore thumb always sticks out. I'm interested in knowing how many actually had FFV problems and were they resolved.
 
#2 · (Edited)
.


I think it is important to distinguish that the related FFV Reflash TSBs only cover 2012+ Tundras, so voting if you have a 2011 or older will likely just skew the results. I realize that likely the majority of FFV Tundra owners are not experiencing problems, but I suspect a significant number are. I am looking forward to seeing the results of the poll.



.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Traded Tundra for Ram

I've had Toyotas since the early '80s. Eight new ones over 35 years. Loved them all. UNTIL this FFV motor. It let me down big time. Provided my dealer with all the info from this site. They were not aware of any of it. Confirmed the Fuel Density Reading at 78%. Had never put E-85 in it. Five times in the shop. They kept it once. Reflased..... Went right back to terrible fuel mileage. Like 8 mpg at 55 mph towing a medium sized 4,500lb RV trailer on flat ground without any wind. Couldn't go 180 miles on a full tank. I'd retired and decided to try full-time RV'ing. Go see the USA in my Tundra. NOT!!! Newbold Toyota in Illinois finally advised me there was nothing else they could do. They'd done everything Toyota had told them to do. Goodbye. I threatened the Lemon Law. The owner told me I'd never win a lemon law case about fuel mileage (note: people vs. Prius). I did not have time to dick around anymore. Bite the bullet and got a Ram 2500 6.7L Diesel. It gets 13.5 mpg at 68 mph. I had installed on the Tundra a camper shell, in-dash NAV, step rails... that I had to re-buy. The difference to trade a 2013 loaded for a 2013 stripped work truck, was $6,800. Camper shell and step rails made it $10,000 that TOYOTA cost me. Do they care? HELL NO ! ! !
 
#6 ·
I've had Toyotas since the early '80s. Eight new ones over 35 years. Loved them all. UNTIL this FFV motor. It let me down big time. Provided my dealer with all the info from this site. They were not aware of any of it. Confirmed the Fuel Density Reading at 78%. Had never put E-85 in it. Five times in the shop. They kept it once. Reflased..... Went right back to terrible fuel mileage. Like 8 mpg at 55 mph towing a medium sized 4,500lb RV trailer on flat ground without any wind. Couldn't go 180 miles on a full tank. I'd retired and decided to try full-time RV'ing. Go see the USA in my Tundra. NOT!!! Newbold Toyota in Illinois finally advised me there was nothing else they could do. They'd done everything Toyota had told them to do. Goodbye. I threatened the Lemon Law. The owner told me I'd never win a lemon law case about fuel mileage (note: people vs. Prius). I did not have time to dick around anymore. Bite the bullet and got a Ram 2500 6.7L Diesel. It gets 13.5 mpg at 68 mph. I had installed on the Tundra a camper shell, in-dash NAV, step rails... that I had to re-buy. The difference to trade a 2013 loaded for a 2013 stripped work truck, was $6,800. Camper shell and step rails made it $10,000 that TOYOTA cost me. Do they care? HELL NO ! ! !

Why don't you go find a Ram forum
 
#5 ·
Threads like this make me happy I didnt buy a FFV
 
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#11 ·
I have a 2012 that has been flashed 3 or 4 times and has been given a new fuel pump and flashed again and there is still a problem -- it changed though -- it starts great now in cold weather!! BUT I'm voting "Not fixed" b/c now i get a stumble when the temp outside is around 50 or above and the engine is cold.

I've posted several times over the last year or so about this 2012 FFV truck cold/rough start problem, in different threads, etc. I appreciate the effort to get a Poll going.

WE NEED ONE "OFFICIAL STICKY THREAD" FOR THIS ISSUE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, that is kept clean of irrelevant questions and comments! CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT sounds great. Toyota is well aware of the problem, they have had multiple "mid/upper level meetings" about it, bought back a few trucks, etc but the SAME fuel system electronics and software and Fuel Pump is in the 2013 and the 2014.. so the problems are still showing up. The problem changed with the weather so much, be the time I had enough visits for a lemon law in my state i was at the mileage mark and had not yet filled out some of the proper paperwork etc. so I didn't even try. I chose to just repeatedly work closely and politely with my dealership.

The fact that this hasn't been fixed, and i'm beyond the lemon law time, and Toyota is turning their back on it make me think a class action lawsuit is appropriate. Big problem is THEY (TOYOTA) DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIX IT. Period. If they did, we'd all be fixed imho.
 
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#12 · (Edited)
I could not agree more with the above post. It is absolutely ridiculous that Toyota will not stand behind the Flex Fuel Tundra problems. My truck is at the dealer for the 5th time for rough cold starts, poor mileage (7.2mpg city), and lack of power. It has been reflashed and or reset 4 times by the dealer and reset at least 15 times by me. When I dropped it off on Monday it had an alch density reading of 64%. As instructed by the Toyota Tech hotline they drained the fuel, reset the alcohol %, and added new E10 gas to the tank. They finally called and said the Truck was fixed. Upon my inquiry, they then told me the alcohol density reading was still at 40% :eek: I then explained that by Toyota specifications any reading over 15% is incorrect for E0-E10 gas. Put another way, if your ECM calculates an alch density above 15%, then it causes your truck to run in E85 mode which results in more wear and tear to the fuel pump in addition to all the other related performance problems.

This is all very frustrating. Keep posting up guys so hopefully our voices will be heard.
 
#14 ·
im gonna pass on voting atm since im caught in the middle. i did have a problem with my truck though. started and ran like shit. dealership did a reflash...but since most report that the reflash doesnt stick im not gonna hold my breathe for this to be a permanant fix.
 
#16 ·
This is crazy, I would convert everything to non flex if it isn't to expensive. The part that sucks is that they will never come up with a recall because poor mileage and sputtering isn't a danger and they don't even know what is causing the problem.
 
#17 ·
Never fixed...

2012 limited double cab 5.7 4x4 from southeast toyota. Bought new in 2012, now have 60k miles.

I just keep monitoring via torque/android and resetting when necessary via the chinese techstream - but I cannot believe toyota has not fixed nor even really acknowledged that there is an issue.

Gave up on the dealer as I don't have time to sit there for 2 hours for them to reset it and claim it's fixed. No rhyme or reason to when the ethanol % jumps - sometimes stays at 0.0 for several/many fillups, but when it goes up once it seems like it goes up consistently afterward until a reset.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Well damn...2014 SR5 FFV just got bit...2600 miles on the clock and when I first bought her 5 months ago, I was able to get 16.8-17mpg on the hwy easy, we just drove up 2 hrs last night to visit my parents and I couldn't get over 14.6mpg the entire way at 75mph on the highway and this was on stretches of flat and slight downhill's...

It's never seen corn as there isn't any available in our area? Damn you toyota for screwing me and only having flex fuel 4x4s in this area.

So am I'm just to take it to the dealer and ask for a alcohol density reading and complain about the poor mileage?

This kinda sucks bc now I wanna hold off modding this truck before getting too far into it with issues
 
#20 ·
After my 2nd reset and new fuel-pump I'm getting 10.8 mpg at 72 mph on flat interstate so TOYOTA can kiss my you-know-what. This is a lemon pure and simple!! My ethanol percentage says 8.6% and didn't change with my recent fill-up at shell with E10 gas...Almost like it's a fixed number now...
 
#19 ·
I just wanted to say that if dealers say they have to drain and re-fill the tank to verify the alcohol % that they can easily just pull a small sample and test it with a simple alcohol test kit...

Amazon.com : Briggs & Stratton 795161 Gasohol Tester Replaces 100023/795161 : Ethanol Test Kit : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Figured this would save the time and frustration associated with having to have them drain and re-fill the tank. There is no electronics involved, simply add water to the line, top with fuel sample, shake, then let settle.
 
#22 ·
My truck has not yet had this problem; hope it never does.

Reading between the lines in the 2014 owners manual; it could be that using fuel with MMT (Methylcy-clopentadienyl Manganese Tricarbonyl) or using fuel with "any" methanol can mess up or damage the FFV system. Even if you always use E10 or less?
 
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#23 ·
Last I heard about MMT in fuel it was about a lawsuit against the makers of mmt. I am unsure if it is widely used, when it was it was a really small amount like 1/32 of a gram per gallon if I remember correctly. I tried to search about the lawsuit but it is irrelevant. I doubt that mmt could be the issue.

Either way, if it is allowed in fuel, and used in fuel, the vehicle should be able to handle it.

It sucks that it seems a lot of people are having the issue.
 
#26 ·
Are any of you guys opening a trouble ticket with toyota corporate or is this strictly staying at the dealer level for now?

Because come Monday, I'm heading straight to the dealer, I know I'm not the first but I'm not happy that I went from 17ish to 14 on the hwy with 0 changes at a truck with only 2600 miles and I want it notated and reflashed and whatever else to see if it remedies this crap.

If my truck was lifted and had bigger tires like the old one, I wouldn't care, but holy crap, if I even level this one, I'll probably be in single digits.
 
#28 ·
I have opened 3 different claims with Corporate. The dealer simply just closes them out without remediating the problem or even contacting me. That being said, open a claim with Corporate. Maybe if enough be people speak up . . .

I started my truck yesterday morning, about 25°. It sounded like a top fuel dragster or something sitting at the tree. Per the video, it took 11-12 seconds do smooth out. My fuel mileage though has not noticeably dropped. Been anywhere from 14-16.5 mpg. My driving habits fluctuate and its been a lot colder here lately. I hope I don't have as bad of problems as other people have had .Since I've had the truck 1 week shy of a year I've done a lot to it and hate to do it all over again. On an up note though , I would like to order a non ffv just so I can supercharge it.
Yah, from all the posts I have read it seems like it takes around a year/10K miles for the rough start to manifest on these Flex Fuel Tundras. My truck just developed rough starts at 10,500 miles. I'm in the same boat as you, but probably worse. I've added $15K-$20K in aftermarket crap and don't want to start over. I love my truck, but I hate the FFV system.
 
#27 ·
I started my truck yesterday morning, about 25°. It sounded like a top fuel dragster or something sitting at the tree. Per the video, it took 11-12 seconds do smooth out. My fuel mileage though has not noticeably dropped. Been anywhere from 14-16.5 mpg. My driving habits fluctuate and its been a lot colder here lately. I hope I don't have as bad of problems as other people have had .Since I've had the truck 1 week shy of a year I've done a lot to it and hate to do it all over again. On an up note though , I would like to order a non ffv just so I can supercharge it.
 
#30 ·
I have subscribed to the thread; but do not have any FFV problems. The only gas the truck has had is the up to E10 (Kroger/Shell/Sun Coast – Sun Coast Shell is the Dallas Kroger supplier). Total mileage is just less than 5,000 miles at 15 months. To the best of my knowledge my station(s) do not use the MMT or Methanol which screw up the FFV system?

For those that are having problems please make sure your truck is listed in your sig…..so dummies like me can’t tell what kind of truck, year model, etc.

Also, if you did have problems and attempted a dealer fix; did the dealer apply the sticker to the underside of the hood close to the hinge – should be on the driver’s side? That sticker should give details to the fix?

My truck has no sticker on it. I have had no FFV problems. The MPGs have been very good. Truck was made last week of August 2013. To date there have been no drivability issues of any kind. This is now the second winter with the truck; coldest operating last year was in the “teens”. So far this year on the 20’s a couple of times. The warmest summer time temp was about 102 last August.
 
#35 ·
All good so far with my truck, looks like the guy's that are having problems are on the east coast, just wandering if the gas back there has something different about it? Anybody from the west having any issues?
 
#38 ·
I think it is the luck of the draw. Or maybe it is the additional 7" of elevation on your truck. :) Nice rig

I ALWAYS use 93 octane.

I have always gotten better mpg with it on my flex. There is an entire thread and a half where others are telling me I was full of shit and there was no reason why higher octane fuel would get better fuel economy.... None the less I still continue to use 93 to this day because it pays off
IDK, super is usually $0.45-.50 higher than regular around here, so that's a 20% premium for for premium. Not sure it's worth the extra cost, but I'll give it a concerted effort. I've filled mid grade and super a few times before with out any noticeable change, but never for a sustained series of fillups. :dunno:
 
#36 ·
So wierd thing happened tonight on the ride back home.

We loaded up the truck, and we haven't driven it all weekend bc we just used my parents vehicles while we were there, the tank was pretty empty, so I stopped at Quiktrip and decided to just fill up with premium 93octane, reset my trip meter, and took off, immediately I noticed my mpg avg was hitting 18.6! My cruise was set at 75mph, and I was like whatever, I'm sure the truck is just ****ing with me and I'll see what happens a few more miles down the road, 221miles down and the truck stayed consistent at 18.4-18.6mpg the entire trip.

Maybe I got a batch of bad gas from on the on post gas station? I usually fill up on base as it's .10 cents cheaper per gallon than in town, but I also normally only put regular 89 octane, but for some reason I just wanted to test out 93 when heading back home...who knows??
 
#37 ·
I ALWAYS use 93 octane.

I have always gotten better mpg with it on my flex. There is an entire thread and a half where others are telling me I was full of shit and there was no reason why higher octane fuel would get better fuel economy.... None the less I still continue to use 93 to this day because it pays off.

Report back if it holds.
 
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#40 ·
not luck of the draw. My 11.8 mpg jumped to 13.5 using Shell V-power (0% eth) as suggested. It runs MUCH better too but the 'indicated' ethanol-percentage has been stuck at 8.6% still since the fuel-pump swap. 13.5 is better, but still not at 16-18 like my 2007 got. Trucks should be the same weight it was the same crewmax 5.7 setup....
 
#41 ·
Here shell V power is 10% max ethanol content still. At least the last time I filled up it was 10% at the station I went to. There was a time when all V power was pure gas. It may be different station to station.
 
#42 ·
Taking my Tundra to the dealer today. When I called yesterday they just said to bring it in and they will reset it. They also told me that they just got something from Toyota about this issue that said that previous and current solutions to this problem haven't worked and that another solution is being worked on. My dealer is actually starting a list of owners that have had issues, so they can contact them when the new solution happens. Maybe they will get it right this time.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Wow, that's pretty impressive to hear...I'm curious to know if it's the truth of just some fluff they are blowing to tide folks over.


So to report on my 2014 5.7 FFV 4x4

Recap, prior to 2600 miles on the truck, I was able to get 17-18.6 mpg on the hwy easy on strictly 89 octane, but on a trip to my parents recently, could not pull over 14.6mpg no matter what mph. This was roughly a 190+ mi trip one way.

On the way home, I ended up having to fill up and decided to fill up 93 octane, and reset the computer and the entire trip home I was able to stay over 18mpg the entire 190+ mi home.

Emptied the rest of the tank with normal driving around town and refilled with 89 octane and mpg went right back to 14.4-14.6mpg on the hwy...

Does anyone think this winter blend in the lower octanes is to blame? I'm heading back to my parents this weekend and will refill with 93 octane before I head out to see what mpg' s I get, but it's clear that with 89octane I consistently only get 14mpg on the hwy.
 
#44 · (Edited)
I had many issues with mine. All related to it reading the alcohol density at 85 pct. when I was using E10. Started like crap in the cold, terrible fuel mileage. Bought an OBD2 reader to read the density. Took it in, they reflashed it. Next day, after refueling, alcohol density right back to 85. Took it back. They reflashed again. Right back to 85. This time I wrote Toyota a nice letter and told them 3rd time - fix it or buy it back. Got a phone call about 2 weeks later to bring it in from a nice fella in CA.

Dealer worked with factory tech and within 5 minutes determined that fuel pump was losing pressure during the "read" of alcohol density. Replaced fuel pump and no further issues.

Key here is knowing the issue and documenting. I had photos of the readout showing alcohol density and sent them with letter.

Also - when refueling, after you are done drive moderately for about 10 minutes. There is actually guidelines in the manual. Driving hard while it is reading can get it out of wack.

Get the Ebay OBD2 Bluetooth reader. App on android and Iphone to read. You can see your alcohol density and what it is doing. Mine would go up about 15-20 percent each fill up after reset until it maxed out at 85.
 
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#45 ·
I had many issues with mine. All related to it reading the alcohol density at 85 pct. when I was using E10. Started like crap in the cold, terrible fuel mileage. Bought an OBD2 reader to read the density. Took it in, they reflashed it. Next day, after refueling, alcohol density right back to 85. Took it back. They reflashed again. Right back to 85. This time I wrote Toyota a nice letter and told them 3rd time - fix it or buy it back. Got a phone call about 2 weeks later to bring it in from a nice fella in CA.

Dealer worked with factory tech and within 5 minutes determined that fuel pump was losing pressure during the "read" of alcohol density. Replaced fuel pump and no further issues.

Key here is knowing the issue and documenting. I had photos of the readout showing alcohol density and sent them with letter.
Thanks for the update. To what enrtity/address did you send the letter? I'm getting nowhere with dealer visits and TCE case managers. The regional field technician refuses to come look at my truck.
 
#48 ·
Update: I was scheduled to bring my Tundra in today so they could replace the fuel pump. Aparently a new flash was released last week. They decided to reflash my truck with the new update and see if it solves the issue. So far so good. it's currently sitting at 0%.
 
#49 ·
Do you know the calibration id of the new reflash? It should be listed in your service documents or readable by any of the OBD readers. It would really help those of us with clueless dealers.

TIA
 
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