Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum banner

2 -12" Sealed or 2 -10" Ported? '15 Double Cab

18K views 56 replies 13 participants last post by  Robert_W 
#1 ·
Hello, been searching through these forums for a couple of days and found some great info. Thanks.

New truck is being delivered in a couple of weeks and I'm trying to firm up the audio install. Going to go with a JL system all around. I've pretty much got everything figured out except the subs. Going to go dual. But would like to use either their 10TW3 10's or 12's. Don't want to mod anything.

I am fairly competent when it comes to audio equipment but trying to test listen to what will be installed in a new truck isn't possible. Have a very high end system in house and know audiophile sound. Last Tundra...'04...drove for 10 years with crap JBL system. Won't be doing that again.

So I think I've looked at all of the sub box options out there. But can't seem to find a ported dual 12" box. Probably due to sizing. Options seem to be either dual 10" ported box firing up...or a dual 12" sealed box firing down.

My thinking is that sometimes bigger isn't better and that dual 10's ported will sound better than dual 12's sealed. But maybe not in such a small closed environment such as a truck cab. I have heard lots of subs ported and sealed in a house but never in a truck. (Currently have 4 - 15" subs in my home theater room. 2 ported and 2 sealed. Sound is wonderful.)

So for those of you running 2-10's firing up...fox box, 12volt tech...do you keep the seat in the up position the majority of the time? How do you keep the seats from interfering? Is there enough room for them down even with say a 250 lb person sitting on the rear seat?

And for those of you running 2 - 12's firing down sealed. Are you happy with the sound? Have you compared or hear the difference to 2 - 10's ported?

Also looked at the JL stealth box but it's only 2 - 10's and if I'm going to run sealed in will be 12" subs

I don't need to rattle windows. Just good quality sound.

Any feedback or suggestion appreciated. Thanks
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I recommend NET Audio subwoofeer enclosures. They're made with cabinet grade MDF and they're desinged and built to be extremely strong. Toyota Tundra - NET Audio | Wichita Falls, TX | (940) 767-1800

Regarding the sizes of subs and sealed vs ported, you need to match the subwoofer to the enclosure and the desired sound. Porting/venting the enclosure gives you a nice bump in the response on the low end and it makes the enclosure more efficient. You tend to have a peak, but if you have EQ you may be able to bring that down. If you add JBL MS-8, or another powerful equalizer, that will EQ the bass extremely well.
 
#3 ·
Trumpet, they look nice. I will shoot them an email and inquire. Thanks.

Has any one here tried porting 2 -12"s under the seat in one of these or any other box? Specifically the JL TW3's? Or is the size of the box not conducive to porting because it's too small? I notice that JL doesn't give specs on a ported box for these shallow subs.
 
#6 ·
Ok, here what I feel...... any shallow sub can not compare to a full size. Will it sound decent? Sure but I'm not to fond of them. The jl stealth box with a 8w7 is pretty good choice and has a full sound hitting low and top range pretty good. A cpl of members have 2 stealth boxes and 1 member has 3!!! I am in the process of making a custom box to fit 2 sundown audio sa-8v2 d4 subs because they are awesome! !!
 
#8 ·
I'd be very disappointed if two sealed 10s were inadequate, when the goal doesn't involve rattling windows.

I've used a single sealed 12 in my current (small) car and previous two trucks and have never found it lacking in any way.
 
#9 ·
LOL,

you don't want to rattle windows, but are looking at 2 10s or 2 12s?

two JL 10's are going to phucking POUND, they are a high SPL sub.

your going to need some decent power to run those.

I had two 8's in my old tundra and those would shake the windows.

a single 10 would be more than enough if your not trying to have other people out side the truck be impressed and just want good sound quality
 
#14 ·
What can I say...I like my music! ;)

Plenty of power. Will be using the JL HD 750 for the subs. And the HD 600/4 for the front and rears. Shop also recommended an Audiocontrol DQ-61 processor and it looks like a good product so I think that will be in the mix too.

Just got off the phone with JL. Tech was very cool to deal with. Took lots of time to answer questions.

Bottom line is that there isn't enough space to run 2 - 12's ported under the seats. They would need at least 2.25 cubic feet ported. And the rough average box for there seems to be 1.5 give or take.

But he did say it was perfect size for 2 - 10's ported.

He also said it would be a real tough choice between the two without hearing them first hand in the same environment. I agree.

So that brings me back to my original dilemma. 2 - 12's sealed OR 2 - 10's ported?

Right now I'm leaning sealed.

If you guys had to choose what would be the over all consensus?

12's sealed or 10's ported?
 
#10 · (Edited)
When I was in a local shop to listen to JL component speakers, the salesman fired up a tiny sealed 10" JL sub. It couldn't have had more than .5 cu ft of volume (likely closer to .3 or .4).

That little sucker was damn impressive.....in a 10 by 40 foot space (if not larger). They call it their magic box.

I'm confident that in a truck cab, two of them would be fully awesome. I need to go back there to find out which driver it's got.
 
#11 ·
and don't be cheap on the AMP, that makes a HUGE difference!!

I had a really sweet phoenix gold on the two JL 8's at the time and it freakin rocked.

it was custom made angled armrest...



 
#12 ·
Sometimes you want bass and you need every cubic inch of storage space you can possibly have. I get that, and I know not everyone wants their entire underseat area lost to a subwoofer enclosure. However, I sell more bass than people think they want. You can always turn the bass down to blend with the speakers. All it takes is one time when you want to jam hard and your downsized sub+box combo lets you down. Then the disappointment kicks in.
 
#18 · (Edited)
IMHO, a well designed ported enclosure, tuned to a low enough frequency, crossed over at no greater than 45-50 Hz can easily be made to sound very good without excessive EQ needed.

Having said that, sealed enclosures do have the benefit of a naturally more gradual LF roll-off which lends itself well to automobile applications.
 
#21 ·
IMHO, a well designed ported enclosure, tuned to a low enough frequency, crossed over at no greater than 45 Hz can easily be made to sound very good without excessive EQ needed.

Having said that, sealed enclosures do have the benefit of a naturally more gradual LF roll-off which lends itself well to automobile applications.
I strongly disagree with crossing a subwoofer at 45 Hz. My philosophy is to use steep slopes, and let the subwoofer do the work of playing the bass up to at least 60 if not 80 Hz, depending on the speakers. Relegating the investment of a subwoofer and a custom enclosure, plus a dedicated amplifier channel, to only reproducing 1 octave is a waste. Of course you don't need much EQ when the passband is so restricted.

Yes, a ported enclosure's response drops quite steeply on the bottom end, but when we tune in the low 30s there isn't much to miss.
 
#19 ·
I'm not against spending more $$ on the processor. Is the JBL really that much better of a unit? I've actually always kinda thought of JBL as cheap inferior product. Maybe that has changed. Dunno.

Agreed on the sound of ported. And if it were the same sized sub it would be a no brainer. I'd go ported. But maybe being 12's sealed makes up for a little low end that the 10's ported would have.
 
#23 ·
I'm not against spending more $$ on the processor. Is the JBL really that much better of a unit? I've actually always kinda thought of JBL as cheap inferior product. Maybe that has changed. Dunno.
MS-8 won Harman International an EISA 2010-2011 Best Product award for In-Car Integration. It's the most capable processor of its kind on the market. It's far from perfect, but it makes quick work of cleaning up the factory audio signal, redistributing the audio to the correct speakers, and retuning everything better than you've likely ever heard in a car. You can make use of a good quality center channel speaker to give every seat good sound, and not just the driver's seat.


Yes, we need to EQ in the car. Whether it's compensating for a factory EQ'd response curve, compensating for road noise, tuning for individual taste, or going after the best possible experience to make long trips a breeze, EQ and other signal manipulations can be a wonderful tool.
 
#20 ·
Another point about EQ. Is it even needed? You guys would know better than I since I don't have the truck yet. Does the stock head unit have a built in multi band EQ? Or just bass and treble adjustment?

With two good amps crossed over at the proper frequency maybe the EQ isn't a necessity.
 
#22 ·
The jbl does a great job as a processor, there isn't no substitute for going active!! Trumpet is spot with the jbl comparison to others. If you like the way you home theater sounds then a ms8 is a must for your truck!!
 
#24 · (Edited)
The actual crossover frequency naturally will depend on the capability of the front stage. If they don't play at full level down to 50 Hz, then it makes no sense to use that low of a setting.

I have not heard how Tundra door mounted speakers (more like the doors themselves) react when reproducing low frequencies, so that could be a significant factor also.

While the common belief is that bass notes below 80 Hz aren't able to be localized, I want as much of the sound coming from the front stage as possible, again within their limits. I play the mains to their extent, and bring subs under them. I also belong to the "no rear fill" camp.

There are as many ways to tune a system as there are tuners.
 
  • Like
Reactions: trumpet
#26 ·
I just went from two shallow 10" Kickers to two shallow 12" Helix subs. The Kickers pounded with nice tight bass. The 12's have tight bass too but easily produce lower frequencies that were not as noticeable with the 10's. If I did it over, I would opt for 1 12" sub and have some storage.
 
#31 ·
I'll simplify this a little bit.

JL knows what they're doing, and their stealth box with dual sealed 10s should sound phenomenal. This subject may be being over complicated without reason.

While it's not JL, Alpine's slim Type-R sub is supposed to perform very very well.

My 8W7 has been augmenting my full range high end home speakers (driven by the car amp) for almost a week now. Room lock is impressive, wall photos rattle 15 feet away, and it/s very comparable to my REL Storm. I will be shocked if I determine it's inadequate in a truck cab. Two slim sealed 10s should easily surpass a ported 8 in all ways.

Any well designed solution should be able to be tuned to integrate well with the front state, in whatever manner you prefer.

Do you plan to do the install yourself, or will a dealer? Did you design/install your home theater? To what kind of music do you listen in the truck, and at what SPL?
 
#32 ·
All kinds at all different levels. Rush to Rachmaninov...Pat Metheny to Porcupine Tree...Joe Bonamassa etc.

Yes, did my home theater and went through several subs and speaker systems till I was satisfied. Don't want to do that again.

Dealer is doing this install.

I'm going to go with 2 - 12 TW3's sealed. And if it sucks I'll put them and the box up on ebay and try 2 -10's ported. Hopefully it will sound great.
 
#33 ·
Any Sub options for 2014 CMs?

Crazy question, has anyone done any subs to their 2014 CMs? I am interested in doing something but with the seats folding up I do not want to compromise possible storage area since my kids are in and out of my truck...
 
#36 ·
Crazy question, has anyone done any subs to their 2014 CMs? I am interested in doing something but with the seats folding up I do not want to compromise possible storage area since my kids are in and out of my truck...
Yup, here is a pic of the subs behind the seats in a CM.
 

Attachments

#34 · (Edited)
So I finally picked up my truck from the dealer after some lengthy accessories issues. However all but a few minor details seemed to have been worked out.

As to this thread specifically. The 2 - 12 TW3's sound very good. They are extremely clean accurate and tight in a sealed enclosure. Definitely not a lot of extreme low end flutter in the 20-30 hz range but they hit hard. Way more than my volume level needs will ever exceed.

So the install was Hushmat for the entire cab, Pioneer NEX 4000 head unit, and then the JL system. C5-650's separates up front, C5-650x coax in rear, and the 2 - 12 TW3's in a sealed box under the seat. Speakers driven by the JL HD/600-4 and the subs driven by the JL HD/750-1. They installed foam seals and enclosures inside the doors to direct the sound into the cab. Used a whole bunch of high end cables and interconnects too.

The reason I went with the Pioneer NEX was it is the first unit I could find anyway to support native HI REZ FLAC on an SD card. I can verify that the unit does indeed support 64 gig cards...and I think it'll do 128 gig...with files at 192mHz/24bit.

I did lose a bit of steering wheel control over the Entune system but don't care really. I still have use of Volume, Mode, Track Selection, BT and Phone. Probably some other stuff too but there's way more functionality than I will ever use. I will never use it to watch movies or hook up a nav system. Also don't care about any of the aftermarket apps at this point. Just wanted a really good sounding deck for audio.

I am VERY happy with the way this system turned out. It is one step short of being as good as what I have in home and I'm not sure it could be improved upon any more really. It's what I call 98%. It's 98% of as good as it can get spending a reasonable amount of money. The entire thing ran roughly $6250 labor included. The last 2% will double or triple the cost. Definitely audiophile grade.
 
#35 ·
Glad it turned out well for you, especially at the price you paid for it. I'm considering upgrading to two low profile kicker subs behind my CM rear seats. Maybe do the doors too, not sure we will see as it goes... It is a rolling work in progress!!
 
#37 · (Edited)
After a few more hours with it just a few more comments on the sound.

The JL speakers have a very warm, neutral and accurate sound. The overall sound of this system is quite detailed. The Pioneer NEX allows for some fine tuning EQ wise and offers some really precise digital processing for timing and seating position that to my surprise is really REALLY good. Normally I shy away from any kind of extra digital manipulation but damn! This thing does fine work.

I'm noticing some things in a close up environment that even some fairly high end equipment at home doesn't reveal as well. I was quite surprised listening to some very familiar stuff.

The JL coax and separates in the doors and dash are superb. Though all specs aside they seem most comfy set to some where around 70 - 80 hz and above. Give the subs all the rest. Overloading them under 60-70hz will show their limitations even though they are rated down into the 40's.

Now. My biggest quibble. The 2 -12's are amazing for what they are. And for shallows / sealed in the size available I do not believe that it is physically possible to do any better.

BUT...what they make up for in accuracy and detail over a ported box...which is quite amazing...they definitely lose in extreme low end smoothness. I haven't measured them but my guess would be there's roughly a 8-12db roll off below 35 hz. Result of the limitations of a sealed box in the size of the enclosure that will fit under the seat.

If you want nose bleed 20 hz kidney liquefying synthesized low end...2 -12's sealed won't do it. You would need to lose the rear seat or put a ported box 3 times the size on top of the seat.

If you want extremely accurate punch and detail of the average bass or kick drum...2-12's sealed underneath will rock your world.

One other thing to mention. I didn't put this thing in to shatter windows down the street. And it won't. I don't care a hoot what it sounds like out of the truck. It's all about the quality inside without bleeding out ear drums...unless you want to.

This system is really capable of showing the difference in quality of a well engineered recording or not. Being some what of an audio geek and todays Hi Rez FLACs were my main reason for it. If you are into this kind of audio it's worth it. First head unit I know of to support it. A good recording of any kind absolutely shines. I will probably never play an mp3 or cd in the deck.

Hope this helps some one looking for an upgraded audio system.
 
#39 ·
Eh...not that much for good audio gear really.

Self employed. I only buy a new truck once every ten years or so. Remember that included all the labor, hushmat install, lots of extra parts etc.

Lots of guys drop more $$ on the platinum models. I went SR5 cause I wanted an 8 foot bed and I would rather have fabric and a high end stereo then leather and a mediocre one.

Not to mention what some guys put into all kinds of after market "stuff". Geez, just an extra set of rims and good set of winter studded tires is stupid expensive.

Boys and our toys huh? ;)
 
#40 ·
It is definitely easy to spend over six grand on a home preamp, amp, source component, or pair of speakers.

Considering the negative aspects of mobile sound, few are willing to put that much into an entire system.

I don't know how much car audio shops charge for hourly labor, but I'd guess that the $$ in labor alone to Hushmat the entire cab is likely more than some folks on this forum put into an entire system.

How much air space does each sub have? I would have to think that gain from the cab should more than make up for the natural LF roll-off.

I'm glad you like the way it turned out.
 
#41 · (Edited)
It's noticeable but it doesn't completely make up for it. Some day I might try swapping out 2 - 10's ported just to know which truly is better. But I'm done spending $$ for now.

As for home systems...if I had it I could easily spend 100 grand or more. However I might not have a marriage any more if I did. It's all about priorities. ;)

BTW I agree about the negative impacts of mobile audio. But I had to know if audiophile sound was possible...especially in my truck. It seems to be. Hushmating or similar was a prerequisite to this whole thing. It would be foolish to spend a ton of cash on real good audio without treating the truck. The difference is night and day. The cab of my truck is now very much isolated and quiet. Approaching luxury car level of noise. Or lack there of. I was quite skeptical but very happy with the results.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top