Consumer Reports responds to pickup comparo controversy - TundraTalk.net

dascrow · 08-10-2007, 09:36 PM

Earlier this week we told you about a pickup truck comparison in the most recent issue of Consumer Reports that seemed a bit fishy. The comparison pitted the new 2007 Toyota Tundra against the 2007 Chevy Silverado, Ford F-150 and Dodge Ram. It was clearly a fight between the Tundra and Silverado from the get-go, since both were the only two completely new trucks in the test. The Tundra, however, seemed to have an advantage in that it was ordered up with the larger of its two engines, the 5.7L V8 producing 381 hp. The Silverado, while available with a more evenly matched 6.0L Vortec MAX V8, was ordered with a less powerful 5.3L V8 producing 315 hp. Not only that, but the Tundra benefited from a 4.30 rear axle ratio that provides better towing and acceleration than the 3.73 ratio in the Silverado, which sacrifices those qualities for better fuel economy. The Silverado, however, could've been ordered with a more comparable 4.10 rear axle ratio at no extra charge.

Well, the gentlefolks at CR recently posted an answer to everyone's questions about this particular half-ton pickup comparo on their blog, which you should go read by clicking here before going on. They explain that choosing equipment for vehicles involved in a comparison is a tricky thing that involves balancing the objective of several goals.

"In general, we want to test a representative vehicle that is comparable to other vehicles in the test group (and previously tested peer vehicles). We also typically test the version--powertrain and trim level--that most regular consumers will buy. "

Read on after the jump to hear our take on CR's explanation.

At face value, it seemed to us that the cards were stacked in the Tundra's favor.

It appears to us that CR failed in terms of acquiring vehicles that were comparable to each other. We recognize the difficulty that's presented with the new Tundra, since Toyota offers significantly fewer configurations than do Chevy, Ford and Dodge. Nevertheless, there are other configurations of the Silverado that would have better matched the Tundra and likely led to the Silverado scoring higher. We admit, the Silverado may not have won the comparo even if it had been configured to better match the Tundra, as Toyota's powertrain is particularly strong and fuel efficient. In the end, however, we believe the consumer would've been better served by reading about an evenly-matched contest.

On CR's second point, that it typically tests versions of vehicles that most regular consumers will buy, we concede that is a good strategy if the plan is to offer a review that will benefit the largest number of consumers. That's fine if a single vehicle is reviewed, but totally inappropriate for a comparison test. As a consumer, why would I want to read a comparison test of trucks that aren't similar? It would like reading about the Honda Civic versus the Saturn Aura. Comparison tests, at least to us, are not about comparing what people buy, they're about advising what people should buy based on an equal comparison.

CR also gave the Tundra a predicted reliability rating of Very Good based on the reliability of past Tundras and Toyotas in general. The Silverado was labeled as too new to predict its reliability. In our eyes, the Tundra should have also been labeled as too new to predict its reliability, considering it is an all-new model built at an all-new assembly plant in San Antonio, TX. Mechanically speaking, the Tundra of today is completely different than the previous Tundra on which CR's reliability scores were based. The Tundra has also suffered 20 cases of reported camshaft failures in models equipped with the same 5.7L engine CR tested.

We still have a lot of respect for the hardworking people at Consumer Reports and value their opinion, but in the case of this half-ton pickup comparo, we believe its value is limited.
Consumer Reports responds to pickup comparo controversy - Autoblog

wildbill23c · 10-17-2007, 09:08 PM

Its not Toyota's fault that the Tundra is 100% better than Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. Maybe the big 3 should build better trucks to compete with the new American Made Truck.

lowlypawn · 10-20-2007, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildbill23c

Its not Toyota's fault that the Tundra is 100% better than Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. Maybe the big 3 should build better trucks to compete with the new American Made Truck.

^ You’re an idiot…

Hydrex · 10-21-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildbill23c

Its not Toyota's fault that the Tundra is 100% better than Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. Maybe the big 3 should build better trucks to compete with the new American Made Truck.

I have owned many Toyotas, but currently drive an 05 Ram QC 4X4 Hemi. Trust me in 05 the Ram was more truck than the Tundra in 05. Btw I also bought my first non Toyota or Mazda car since 1974, an 05 RT Hemi Magnum, 75,000 defect and troublefree miles on the Ram and 110,000 troublefree miles on the Magnum. I drag race them regularly. To be honest the quality thing is overblown, my dad drives GMC 4X4 1500's and they have been very reliable too, and with the 4.8 very economical. I would still be very interested in a Tundra if they introduce a diesel.

trailrider325 · 10-24-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildbill23c

Its not Toyota's fault that the Tundra is 100% better than Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. Maybe the big 3 should build better trucks to compete with the new American Made Truck.

i agree with wildbill on the chevy part gm sucks !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mickey · 01-13-2008, 07:24 PM

Wildbill I agree with you. As for lowlypawn no help for your statement. that wasn't called for. I had the F-150 and LT3 Silverado. Sorry Hydrex, haven't owned a dodge in over 30 years. 73 Dodge Charger SE with the big block 400. Slipped a bearing at 43,000. Got rid of it.

getreal · 03-10-2008, 10:25 PM

This is great a website designed for all the guys who love Ford's but can't afford them. I spend more time signing up for this than its worth. Hey guys there this thing called girls. They are pretty cool and fun, you should meet them some time. Tundra's are nice toying but if your looking for a real truck find one thats been doing this for a while with a proven record. Maybe one that makes a commercial truck. Just a idea, also dont forget about thinking about talking to a girl. Thay dont have cooties, Buy a real truck and get a life. Oh yhea in 2007 the drive shaft where falling out of them its a national recall check it out, how about the cam shafts. Thats a great truck, keep up the great work.

jpnca · 03-10-2008, 10:55 PM

I owned 2 Fords never again. But really thanks for your opinion!

Mickey · 03-17-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by getreal

This is great a website designed for all the guys who love Ford's but can't afford them. I spend more time signing up for this than its worth. Hey guys there this thing called girls. They are pretty cool and fun, you should meet them some time. Tundra's are nice toying but if your looking for a real truck find one thats been doing this for a while with a proven record. Maybe one that makes a commercial truck. Just a idea, also dont forget about thinking about talking to a girl. Thay dont have cooties, Buy a real truck and get a life. Oh yhea in 2007 the drive shaft where falling out of them its a national recall check it out, how about the cam shafts. Thats a great truck, keep up the great work.

Hey get real you talk about recalls, How about your major one with the cruise control. Nothing like "Burning Down The House". Or this one get real "How many trips to the dealership it takes to fix a computer"? Well it took 10x just for the Service advisor, Shop Manager, General Manager to say we can't fix your truck. But they can fix my cup holder that broke. Not to mention 97 Thunderbird in shop 29x in 5 years. 2003 Crown Victoria the top notch car with no problems in shop 27x in 4 years. You call that quality. I gave Ford their try at it no more cheap B/S. Just because your commercial shows your truck being swung by the tow hooks proves only 2 things. You know a "FORD" will either get stuck or break down. So you might as well forget about the girl thing. Do you want me to list the NHTSA's data on FORD?

Bilztrd · 03-20-2008, 07:28 PM

Bought a Tundra as a result of owning a Ford.
Get Real-Get Lost

aehjr · 03-20-2008, 09:43 PM

I have no beef with Fords. I had two F150s before buying the Tundra. I bought my '91 F150 new and sold it with 172K miles on the clock in 2003; I did three brake jobs and hoses; other than that, the truck required nothing but standard PM (oil changes and fluid flushes) over those miles. I bought my 2001 F-150 with 38K miles and sold it with 103K miles. Other than gas and oil, it cost me two brake jobs and one blinker assembly in five years and 65K miles.
That said, I bought the Tundra because I loved the looks and specs, Toyota's reputation, and because the Ford dealers pissed me off. They would not give me a price quote via phone or internet. They would not even tell me what they had on the lot to look at. They all wanted me to "come in to talk about it" so they could give me a good deal. The Toyota dealer where I bought my truck was straight about the deal he could (or would) make. When I tried to compare to a "comparably equipped" F150, I couldn't tell what the price would be so decided to go with the Tundra. Now that I have owned it for a month, I am very happy I did!!

Mickey · 03-21-2008, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aehjr

I have no beef with Fords. I had two F150s before buying the Tundra. I bought my '91 F150 new and sold it with 172K miles on the clock in 2003; I did three brake jobs and hoses; other than that, the truck required nothing but standard PM (oil changes and fluid flushes) over those miles. I bought my 2001 F-150 with 38K miles and sold it with 103K miles. Other than gas and oil, it cost me two brake jobs and one blinker assembly in five years and 65K miles.
That said, I bought the Tundra because I loved the looks and specs, Toyota's reputation, and because the Ford dealers pissed me off. They would not give me a price quote via phone or internet. They would not even tell me what they had on the lot to look at. They all wanted me to "come in to talk about it" so they could give me a good deal. The Toyota dealer where I bought my truck was straight about the deal he could (or would) make. When I tried to compare to a "comparably equipped" F150, I couldn't tell what the price would be so decided to go with the Tundra. Now that I have owned it for a month, I am very happy I did!!

For any dealer who has a great product which all of them will say yes you would think they would give a great price to get you to come in. It makes me worry when they state we want you to come in and deal. That tells me they only know how to deal with people with force meaning a couple of salesman to one customer. The one one that catches my ear is the one that knows his product. How can you sell a product when you know nothing of your product. Good deal aehr

08-10-2007, 09:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
dascrow Administrator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alamogordo, NM Posts: 776	Consumer Reports responds to pickup comparo controversy Earlier this week we told you about a pickup truck comparison in the most recent issue of Consumer Reports that seemed a bit fishy. The comparison pitted the new 2007 Toyota Tundra against the 2007 Chevy Silverado, Ford F-150 and Dodge Ram. It was clearly a fight between the Tundra and Silverado from the get-go, since both were the only two completely new trucks in the test. The Tundra, however, seemed to have an advantage in that it was ordered up with the larger of its two engines, the 5.7L V8 producing 381 hp. The Silverado, while available with a more evenly matched 6.0L Vortec MAX V8, was ordered with a less powerful 5.3L V8 producing 315 hp. Not only that, but the Tundra benefited from a 4.30 rear axle ratio that provides better towing and acceleration than the 3.73 ratio in the Silverado, which sacrifices those qualities for better fuel economy. The Silverado, however, could've been ordered with a more comparable 4.10 rear axle ratio at no extra charge. Well, the gentlefolks at CR recently posted an answer to everyone's questions about this particular half-ton pickup comparo on their blog, which you should go read by clicking here before going on. They explain that choosing equipment for vehicles involved in a comparison is a tricky thing that involves balancing the objective of several goals. "In general, we want to test a representative vehicle that is comparable to other vehicles in the test group (and previously tested peer vehicles). We also typically test the version--powertrain and trim level--that most regular consumers will buy. " Read on after the jump to hear our take on CR's explanation. At face value, it seemed to us that the cards were stacked in the Tundra's favor. It appears to us that CR failed in terms of acquiring vehicles that were comparable to each other. We recognize the difficulty that's presented with the new Tundra, since Toyota offers significantly fewer configurations than do Chevy, Ford and Dodge. Nevertheless, there are other configurations of the Silverado that would have better matched the Tundra and likely led to the Silverado scoring higher. We admit, the Silverado may not have won the comparo even if it had been configured to better match the Tundra, as Toyota's powertrain is particularly strong and fuel efficient. In the end, however, we believe the consumer would've been better served by reading about an evenly-matched contest. On CR's second point, that it typically tests versions of vehicles that most regular consumers will buy, we concede that is a good strategy if the plan is to offer a review that will benefit the largest number of consumers. That's fine if a single vehicle is reviewed, but totally inappropriate for a comparison test. As a consumer, why would I want to read a comparison test of trucks that aren't similar? It would like reading about the Honda Civic versus the Saturn Aura. Comparison tests, at least to us, are not about comparing what people buy, they're about advising what people should buy based on an equal comparison. CR also gave the Tundra a predicted reliability rating of Very Good based on the reliability of past Tundras and Toyotas in general. The Silverado was labeled as too new to predict its reliability. In our eyes, the Tundra should have also been labeled as too new to predict its reliability, considering it is an all-new model built at an all-new assembly plant in San Antonio, TX. Mechanically speaking, the Tundra of today is completely different than the previous Tundra on which CR's reliability scores were based. The Tundra has also suffered 20 cases of reported camshaft failures in models equipped with the same 5.7L engine CR tested. We still have a lot of respect for the hardworking people at Consumer Reports and value their opinion, but in the case of this half-ton pickup comparo, we believe its value is limited. Consumer Reports responds to pickup comparo controversy - Autoblog

03-10-2008, 10:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
jpnca Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Gabriel Valley Posts: 1,715	I owned 2 Fords never again. But really thanks for your opinion! __________________

03-20-2008, 07:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
Bilztrd Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 25	Bought a Tundra as a result of owning a Ford. Get Real-Get Lost __________________ 07 Crewmax 4x4 Timberline with a Bench TRD Debadged Truck Covers USA roll top Hang out with jealous Ford & GMC owners look what they did!

03-20-2008, 09:43 PM	#11 (permalink)
aehjr Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Alexandria VA Posts: 20	I have no beef with Fords. I had two F150s before buying the Tundra. I bought my '91 F150 new and sold it with 172K miles on the clock in 2003; I did three brake jobs and hoses; other than that, the truck required nothing but standard PM (oil changes and fluid flushes) over those miles. I bought my 2001 F-150 with 38K miles and sold it with 103K miles. Other than gas and oil, it cost me two brake jobs and one blinker assembly in five years and 65K miles. That said, I bought the Tundra because I loved the looks and specs, Toyota's reputation, and because the Ford dealers pissed me off. They would not give me a price quote via phone or internet. They would not even tell me what they had on the lot to look at. They all wanted me to "come in to talk about it" so they could give me a good deal. The Toyota dealer where I bought my truck was straight about the deal he could (or would) make. When I tried to compare to a "comparably equipped" F150, I couldn't tell what the price would be so decided to go with the Tundra. Now that I have owned it for a month, I am very happy I did!! __________________ 2008 Tundra Double Cab, 5.7L 4X4; Silver Sky Metallic 2004 Yamaha FJR

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Remove Advertisements Sponsored Links
TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum Advertisement

10-17-2007, 09:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
wildbill23c Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 265	Its not Toyota's fault that the Tundra is 100% better than Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. Maybe the big 3 should build better trucks to compete with the new American Made Truck.

01-13-2008, 07:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mickey Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 3,931	Wildbill I agree with you. As for lowlypawn no help for your statement. that wasn't called for. I had the F-150 and LT3 Silverado. Sorry Hydrex, haven't owned a dodge in over 30 years. 73 Dodge Charger SE with the big block 400. Slipped a bearing at 43,000. Got rid of it.

03-10-2008, 10:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
getreal Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tennesse Posts: 12	This is great a website designed for all the guys who love Ford's but can't afford them. I spend more time signing up for this than its worth. Hey guys there this thing called girls. They are pretty cool and fun, you should meet them some time. Tundra's are nice toying but if your looking for a real truck find one thats been doing this for a while with a proven record. Maybe one that makes a commercial truck. Just a idea, also dont forget about thinking about talking to a girl. Thay dont have cooties, Buy a real truck and get a life. Oh yhea in 2007 the drive shaft where falling out of them its a national recall check it out, how about the cam shafts. Thats a great truck, keep up the great work.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)