if you get a Cummins you don't have to worry about the Urea fluid
did i miss something? the last cummins i worked on in a 3500 with a workbody had the urea system.the only diesel manufaturer i know of that didn't need urea was navistar.no one else could meet the emissions without it (detroit,cummins,mercedes-benz,isuzu,and i think maybe hino also,gm duramax,maybe ford?)
did i miss something? the last cummins i worked on in a 3500 with a workbody had the urea system.the only diesel manufaturer i know of that didn't need urea was navistar.no one else could meet the emissions without it (detroit,cummins,mercedes-benz,isuzu,and i think maybe hino also,gm duramax,maybe ford?)
Some how dodge got away with not having to put urea systems on their diesels. They had to incorporate it on to their diesels by a certain time. Ford and GM have them. Dodge has to start putting them in by this year if I remember correctly.
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IMO it just doesn't make sense to put a diesel in a half ton truck. I can see a small diesel in the small trucks (Tacoma, Dakota, etc.) for mileage, but you're not going to get better than 20MPG in a 1/2 ton with a diesel. I like diesels, but I wouldn't get one unless I needed the towing power, and right now the 5.7L handles my tow needs with power to spare. Sure I'd like better mileage, but I'd settle for a larger fuel tank for now .
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Few things I'd like to add:
-Ram has already said that the diesel option will not have a premium price difference
-For those saying V6 cummins, not true. It is an European manufacturer, same that makes engines for Iveco which happens to be a proven engine. Current running Cummins is a 6.7L straight 6
-If you are thinking that a Diesel engine in a full size pick up truck will give you 30 mpg guess again. My 06 5.9 cummins never gave me more than 19-20 hand calculated, though while towing that figure didn't change much. Low end torque (massive torque) is the key to that if and only if you do heavy hauling.
-Added cost of ownership, maintenance? I'd like for someone to explain that one to me. Price per gallon difference at the pump maybe??? Oil changes did take 13 Q but happened every 7K miles as per cummins recommendations. Fuel and air filter changes same as my current Tundra. Unless you plan on keeping a diesel beyond its life expectancy there really are no added costs of ownership.
I sold my 06 two weeks ago with 167K miles and that engine was cherry, never a single problem. The rest? Well the rest was a Dodge.
Ram is no longer owned by Dodge, but Fiat. I guarantee we will be seeing some good changes for the better, in fact we already are.
Toyota has already missed that train, sad but true. As I have said time and again Europe, Asia and Latin America have their Land cruisers both SUV and pick up truck version of it, 4Runners, Hilux, Prado (equivalent to the Lexus GX) and even friggin corollas all with turbo Diesel engines that pass rigorous emissions controls.
Why have they left USA stranded with no diesels is beyond me but I think it has been one of the dumbest moves at least in the truck line up.
Diesel has been higher than regular at least for the last 4 years, in NJ about 50-60 cents on average. That's why I didn't go for another diesel, because I couldn't justify the premium engine price difference nor the price per gallon difference anymore.
I love diesels and anything with a diesel engine and Toyota happens to make one of the best Diesel engines in the world hands down. If they come up with a TDI Tundra I would be all over it, even with the ugly ass grille of the 2014 but not because I need it.
All in all fuel economy (IMHO) has come a long way. Our 350 ci (5.7) definitely make better mileage today than the old GM 350 made back in the day. And Diesels are not really about fuel economy but low end power.
Now as far as durability or longevity, things have also change. My friend sold his 1st gen Tundra with 235K miles and that think drove like new, needless to say he traded it for a 2nd gen Tundra. But to see a 5.7 Tundra reach 400.000 miles or more? I'd question that one.
Just my $.02
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IMO it just doesn't make sense to put a diesel in a half ton truck. I can see a small diesel in the small trucks (Tacoma, Dakota, etc.) for mileage, but you're not going to get better than 20MPG in a 1/2 ton with a diesel.
Umm, the 2012 1/2 ton crew cab 4x4 is 5500 lbs. The 2012 1 ton crew cab 4x4 is 7400 lbs. Almost a ton of difference.
New diesel is a 3.0, the one in the 1 ton is a 6.7.
The 1 ton gets around 16-18 mpg if driven normally.
I could easily see the 1/2 ton getting upwards of 25 mpg.
did i miss something? the last cummins i worked on in a 3500 with a workbody had the urea system.the only diesel manufaturer i know of that didn't need urea was navistar.no one else could meet the emissions without it (detroit,cummins,mercedes-benz,isuzu,and i think maybe hino also,gm duramax,maybe ford?)
The Cummins engine is going to Urea in 2013. It did not need it through 2012 because it was clean enough when introduced to be certified through 2012. Some changes have been made to the 13 emissions so urea it is. The last Cummins 3500 would not have had the urea system unless it was a cab/chassis model which falls under a different category than the regular 3500's you see going down the road. If that is the case, then yes it had urea. It is also rated lower HP/TQ than the 385hp/850lb-ft 3500's.
Umm, the 2012 1/2 ton crew cab 4x4 is 5500 lbs. The 2012 1 ton crew cab 4x4 is 7400 lbs. Almost a ton of difference.
New diesel is a 3.0, the one in the 1 ton is a 6.7.
The 1 ton gets around 16-18 mpg if driven normally.
I could easily see the 1/2 ton getting upwards of 25 mpg.
I agree and think it will closer to 30 highway. Remember the 1/2 ton gets the 8 speed transmission which is much more efficient than the 6 speed autos in the 3/4 - 1 tons. It also has active aero, active highway height dropping suspension and less unsprung due to lighter axles and frame and lower rotational weight. It will be interesting to see what the numbers come out to.
The V8 Hemi Ram was already rated at 19mpgs highway and thats without the new tech mentioned earlier.
I sure hope Toyota comes up with some updated engine choices here in the next year or too. I dont want them to become irrelevant in the truck market. Even the Titan is getting a diesel.
Some how dodge got away with not having to put urea systems on their diesels. They had to incorporate it on to their diesels by a certain time. Ford and GM have them. Dodge has to start putting them in by this year if I remember correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archtaan
The Cummins engine is going to Urea in 2013. It did not need it through 2012 because it was clean enough when introduced to be certified through 2012. Some changes have been made to the 13 emissions so urea it is. The last Cummins 3500 would not have had the urea system unless it was a cab/chassis model which falls under a different category than the regular 3500's you see going down the road. If that is the case, then yes it had urea. It is also rated lower HP/TQ than the 385hp/850lb-ft 3500's.
i don't know guys,the ram i worked on had the 6.7L cummins and it was a 2012(it was put into service late 2011).the truck leasing comany i used to work for has had urea equipped units since late 2011/early 2012.
You all are surprised, yet I posted a pic of a dodge half ton with diesel and the scooped 3/4 ton diesel hood and 8 lug wheels that was a test vehicle many months ago...
TOLD YA...
I see everything before anyone else does, as far as the big 1.75 anyways (sorry, used to be the big 3 lol HAAA)
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i don't know guys,the ram i worked on had the 6.7L cummins and it was a 2012(it was put into service late 2011).the truck leasing comany i used to work for has had urea equipped units since late 2011/early 2012.
It must have been a cab and chassis truck that had a work bed, flat bed, tool box, etc on it. They have had urea since 2010. The non commercial 6.7's through 12 dont have urea. Ralph Gilles announced it this year when the max tow package was introduced that urea will come to all 6.7's for the 2013 model year.
Urea is coming in 2013 and will be good for Ram. The 6.7's goes into regen way to often and it is killing their fuel economy. Urea will help clean up the particulates and reduce the regen cycles which spray fuel ahead of the dpf to burn away the soot accumulation and less egr is needed which keeps the cylinders and turbo clean.
Ill guarantee the 1/2 Ram will use Urea as well. Ford and Chevy have used it for years and its no big deal. Diesel power did a fuel economy test adding in the added cost of urea and the added cost was so minor it wasnt even a factor.
25 mpg hwy... and towing 7000 lbs @ 1800 to 2500 rpm all day. That's my guess, and those numbers would force me to consider them (I tow a camper just big enough to need some decent power, but not big enough to need a 7500 lb HD truck).
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It must have been a cab and chassis truck that had a work bed, flat bed, tool box, etc on it. They have had urea since 2010. The non commercial 6.7's through 12 dont have urea. Ralph Gilles announced it this year when the max tow package was introduced that urea will come to all 6.7's for the 2013 model year.
Urea is coming in 2013 and will be good for Ram. The 6.7's goes into regen way to often and it is killing their fuel economy. Urea will help clean up the particulates and reduce the regen cycles which spray fuel ahead of the dpf to burn away the soot accumulation and less egr is needed which keeps the cylinders and turbo clean.
Ill guarantee the 1/2 Ram will use Urea as well. Ford and Chevy have used it for years and its no big deal. Diesel power did a fuel economy test adding in the added cost of urea and the added cost was so minor it wasnt even a factor.
If I remember correctly a full tank of urea will last 800 or so miles. We have a couple of Peterbilts at work that have to have urea.
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did i miss something? the last cummins i worked on in a 3500 with a workbody had the urea system.the only diesel manufaturer i know of that didn't need urea was navistar.no one else could meet the emissions without it (detroit,cummins,mercedes-benz,isuzu,and i think maybe hino also,gm duramax,maybe ford?)
