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post #76 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 01:33 AM
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I agree.
Before politicians can make gun control laws, they should do a tour in the ME, spend a day on the streets of Chicago, doing domestic law enforcement calls, spend a day as a cashier in a 7-11 in Detroit, spend a day working as a Texas rancher, a mile from the Mexican border (where there's no fence), etc, etc.

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post #77 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 01:06 PM
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The NRA should do more to police themselves. I think they could come up with some better laws than politicians who always have an agenda.
But no, they act like religions and defend themselves to where they do more harm than good.
If the law says no more than 7 rounds, I think it should be for everyone, maybe even limit the governors protection force to just 1 round. While police are tasked with protection, there are usually several of them around and armed so you could easily make that idiotic argument. I say if they don't exclude law enforcement, it will get repealed much sooner.
I feel strongly about throwing out this "legislation" and I don't own a gun
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post #78 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 01:12 PM
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Its New York....you get what you paid for (who you voted for)
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post #79 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 01:22 PM
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It's not what the voters paid for, it's what the special interest groups paid for.
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post #80 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 01:26 PM
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Funny....I dont care how many "special interests groups" try that shit in Florida, something like that will NEVER happen. Sure, we effed up and voted for 4 more but we are not a lib state....like NY will always be.
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post #81 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 01:46 PM
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NY pos governor signs strictest gun bill today

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It's not what the voters paid for, it's what the special interest groups paid for.
I might buy that if something was pushed through against the general will of the people. In NY, the voters vociferously and with rare exception pull the lever for those that espouse these policies.


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post #82 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 01:59 PM
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With any large and diverse state, you will always find lots of people for and against something.
In NY, the big cities have different agendas than the the more rural areas. Some states are mostly all backwoods and their politicians reflect that.
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post #83 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 03:41 PM
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NY pos governor signs strictest gun bill today

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With any large and diverse state, you will always find lots of people for and against something.
In NY, the big cities have different agendas than the the more rural areas. Some states are mostly all backwoods and their politicians reflect that.
It would seem to me their agendas are very similar. 23 out of 27 districts went to Dems for US congress, 48 out of 64 for Dems in the state senate, and a pretty healthy majority went for Obeezy statewide. I'm not breaking any new ground by saying NY is pretty damn liberal, just saying that when you vote to the left in such large numbers you get the policies you deserve. As to your last point, I would like to hear more about these "backwoods" states and their respective politicians. To my knowledge, no states have outlawed abortion, homosexuality, or women in the workplace. Nor have any made moonshine the state drink, provided tax cuts for corn cob pipes, or brought forth legislation limiting the amount of teeth a citizen may possess. I'm not sure what you mean by backwoods.


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post #84 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 04:05 PM
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Voters vote in their best choice. Maybe you have to vote in people who sometimes vote for something you don't like. And that happens in any state. A state with more diversity will give you more chances to not get what you want.
It is like when you have 3 people deciding what to do Sat. night, it isn't hard especially when you have limited options. Now change that to 300 people and seemingly unlimited options, then you have a state like NY.
There is no such thing as a liberal or conservative state. You just have a higher percentage going one way or the other.
And maybe if there were tighter gun laws in one of the states who feels that it won't happen there, I would have more living relatives.
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post #85 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 04:19 PM
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NY pos governor signs strictest gun bill today

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Voters vote in their best choice. Maybe you have to vote in people who sometimes vote for something you don't like. And that happens in any state. A state with more diversity will give you more chances to not get what you want.
It is like when you have 3 people deciding what to do Sat. night, it isn't hard especially when you have limited options. Now change that to 300 people and seemingly unlimited options, then you have a state like NY.
There is no such thing as a liberal or conservative state. You just have a higher percentage going one way or the other.
And maybe if there were tighter gun laws in one of the states who feels that it won't happen there, I would have more living relatives.
Sorry for your loss, but if you think more gun laws will foster less gun crime then you can take that argument over to the gun ban thread. To your other point, to say there are not conservative or liberal states is absurd. Democrats generally don't run on lower taxes, the right to bear arms, less regulation, and less dependence on government. States like California, New York, and others tend to vote overwhelmingly Democrat. What a coincidence that those states are the most taxed, most regulated, have the most punitive gun laws, and have more people that rely on government for much of their needs. After decades of doing the same thing with the same results, I can only assume that those states' citizens are knowingly voting for liberal candidates and policies. Thus, they are liberal states.


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post #86 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 04:29 PM
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And maybe if there were tighter gun laws in one of the states who feels that it won't happen there, I would have more living relatives.
Never once, have gun laws prevented or even dampened crime, violent or otherwise. In fact, history has proven just the opposite. Areas, cities, states, countries with the strictest gun laws/regulations, consistanly have higher crime rates.
If that's what you are getting at, I just wanted to make that clear.

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post #87 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 04:46 PM
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Never once, have gun laws prevented or even dampened crime, violent or otherwise. In fact, history has proven just the opposite. Areas, cities, states, countries with the strictest gun laws/regulations, consistanly have higher crime rates.
If that's what you are getting at, I just wanted to make that clear.
History has not proven anything. What happened somewhere else at a different time means little.
Having stricter gun laws means that is one more thing to increase the crime rate. You have an illegal gun, you have committed a crime. And when this law goes into effect, our crime rate will soar. Because all those average joes will now be criminals.
When you start throwing useless statistics at an issue, it just means you have a weak argument.
I said long ago in this thread I am against this illegal law, and confused by the blowback.
Guns don't kill people, it is the people behind those guns. Laws are not going to stop 1 massacre.
If you call NY liberal because we feed our poor and end up getting immigrants from states that would rather shoot you than feed you, I guess that is just the world I live in. I am in favor of not giving welfare to anyone who hasn't lived here for 5 years, yes, but until I can change the regulations, I live with it as the alternative of living in another state is not worth it.
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post #88 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 05:01 PM
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NY pos governor signs strictest gun bill today

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History has not proven anything. What happened somewhere else at a different time means little.
Having stricter gun laws means that is one more thing to increase the crime rate. You have an illegal gun, you have committed a crime. And when this law goes into effect, our crime rate will soar. Because all those average joes will now be criminals.
When you start throwing useless statistics at an issue, it just means you have a weak argument.
I said long ago in this thread I am against this illegal law, and confused by the blowback.
Guns don't kill people, it is the people behind those guns. Laws are not going to stop 1 massacre.
If you call NY liberal because we feed our poor and end up getting immigrants from states that would rather shoot you than feed you, I guess that is just the world I live in. I am in favor of not giving welfare to anyone who hasn't lived here for 5 years, yes, but until I can change the regulations, I live with it as the alternative of living in another state is not worth it.
Wrong. Nobody is talking about passing a new law and measuring crime rates based on violations of the new law. We are talking specifically about states/counties/cities with the most restrictive gun laws having a disproportionately higher level of violent crime. History has proven it, and it has nothing to do with a "different time". Bottom line, states that allow citizens to freely take measures to protect themselves against violent crime generally have lower rates of violent crime.

BTW, New York is pretty low on the list of states harboring our illegal intruders (I think you call them immigrants), so that argument is without merit. Every state feeds its poor and has mechanisms in place for those that are down and out. For me, there is no virtue in feeding the poor as a function of government. The true test is to legislate in such a way as to reduce poverty by allowing people to thrive and succeed without the shackles of government. Sorry, bud, but that's not what they're after in your state.


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post #89 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 05:03 PM
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Having stricter gun laws means that is one more thing to increase the crime rate.
Guns don't kill people, it is the people behind those guns. Laws are not going to stop 1 massacre.
That's what I'm saying. I thought you were implying the opposite in your other post. I simply misunderstood you. So, there's no argument.
However, history does prove everything and statistics are not useless.
If you burn your hand on the stove, the next time you go to use it,....you should know that it's hot and to go about it differently. That's referencing history, as to not make the same mistake again. but, again, you're in agreement that more gun laws won't help bring down crime. So, in some sense, you must know this by understanding that it's never worked before.


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post #90 of 94 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 05:23 PM
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Unless you have lived here, you really don't know the situation. The same as you are implying our legislature doesn't have a clue as to effective peace keeping. I've live in several states and have found scary laws and some scary lack of law everywhere.
NY has been around a lot longer than other states and been civilized longer.
Thinking today how many people in the South are enjoying a holiday for a man that 50 in the 60's their ancestors would have shot themselves. We all evolve, just some are in different places.
What do you mean we don't have an immigrant problem, we are right on the border with Canada. They cross the border in search of expensive medical care.
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