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#1 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 02:49 PM
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Gun Violence and Gun Control Fervor

I saw a comment in the thread about the CT school shooting (my heart aches), and while I felt moved to comment, I did not want to derail that thread, so...

The point was that "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." The poster went on to note that an evil person bent on killing will find a way, gun or no gun.

While I am not a gun control advocate, and I generally agree, I think it is safe to say that if this same nut job showed up at that school with a knife, we would not be mourning the loss of 20 or 30 children.

Do we (and should we) have the right to bear arms? Yes, I think so. Do we need to be able to access high powered automatic weapons? I think there is a debate to be had. But before we start that debate, we most definitely need to enforce the laws that already exist.

My $0.02.

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#2 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 02:52 PM
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The shooter had automatic weapons?

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#3 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 02:54 PM
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The shooter had automatic weapons?

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I actually have no idea. One report said over 100 shots fired, and one kid likened the sound to that of a bunch of cans falling from a shelf.

Regardless, that is typically one of the points of contention when the gun control debate rears it's ugly head, so I brought it up as well.

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#4 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 02:57 PM
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The news (CBS) is really struggling on the type of weapons used. They did manage to describe it as a .223 "Bushmaster type" assault rifle and later explained that this is the same type ammo used by the U.S. military. They failed to mention that this is also a popular varmint round used by a lot of law abiding citizens.

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#5 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:00 PM
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F**ked up people are gonna do f**ked up things whether guns are illegal or not. Some dude killed a couple people and himself with a bow/arrow and a knife in Casper, WY a few weeks ago.

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#6 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:01 PM
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On the other hand if it was legal to carry a weapon on school property someone would have taken him out sooner.

A criminal will get their hands on a gun no matter how tight gun control is.

If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns.

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#7 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:05 PM
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F**ked up people are gonna do f**ked up things whether guns are illegal or not. Some dude killed a couple people and himself with a bow/arrow and a knife in Casper, WY a few weeks ago.

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Yes, true, but again, if this guy had shown up with a bow and arrow, I am certain that we would not be talking about 20 or 30 fatalities.

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#8 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:09 PM
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On the other hand if it was legal to carry a weapon on school property someone would have taken him out sooner.

A criminal will get their hands on a gun no matter how tight gun control is.

If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns.

"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"? Yes, this has SOME credibility. However, if you were to outlaw guns, it would be harder to get them in general, and even fewer outlaws would have them.


However, I certainly don't advocate outlawing guns.

And in this case, are we talking about a career criminal who would have the means to get a gun, even if they were all outlawed, or are we talking about a deranged person who snapped and went on a rampage, but who had no other illegal activities in their life, and probably would not have gone to the trouble to have a gun in the first place if guns were in fact illegal and hard to come by?

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#9 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:12 PM
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I doubt he had automatic weapons, semi-auto... more than likely.

If you do it legally, you need to be a dealer, class III if I recall correctly. This would also allow you to own suppressors (at least in Texas). Course in Texas we can do things like living trusts and corporations that hold legal "possession" of said item, but that's a whole different topic.

If they were automatic, well he's clearly already a criminal and we couldn't prevent his obtaining it if we wanted to.

The reason these jackasses target schools, theaters, etc is because there are large concentrations of UNARMED citizens congregating in one area presenting a large amount of easily eliminated targets. There is a reason I carry into every movie I see, every mall I walk into, every public park even. Very often I will in a bank also, yes its not legal but unless I'm walking through checkpoints or being searched chances are mine is on me.

There is no need for hypothetical "what ifs" but suffice to say if we allowed the people who worked in these establishments to exercise their rights to the second amendment perhaps less of these situations would occur.

We've all heard the line, "An armed society is a polite society." and its true so long as we have intelligent, rational people exercising their rights. Those people keep the nut jobs form doing stupid shit probably 7 out of 10 times (I'd venture a guess). Intelligent does not necessarily mean educated!

In my opinion the solution will never be and CANNOT be increased restrictions on our rights to bear arms. Its not a coincidence when gun ownership rises in an area that the number of violent crimes decreases.

Food for thought my brothers.

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#10 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oyibo46 View Post
The news (CBS) is really struggling on the type of weapons used. They did manage to describe it as a .223 "Bushmaster type" assault rifle and later explained that this is the same type ammo used by the U.S. military. They failed to mention that this is also a popular varmint round used by a lot of law abiding citizens.
Exactly...the knob gobbling 0bama media is going to spin this into directions that aren't even conceivable to the average citizen.

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#11 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by The Onceler View Post
"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"? Yes, this has SOME credibility. However, if you were to outlaw guns, it would be harder to get them in general, and even fewer outlaws would have them.


However, I certainly don't advocate outlawing guns.

And in this case, are we talking about a career criminal who would have the means to get a gun, even if they were all outlawed, or are we talking about a deranged person who snapped and went on a rampage, but who had no other illegal activities in their life, and probably would not have gone to the trouble to have a gun in the first place if guns were in fact illegal and hard to come by?

Guns are an equilzer. They make it so someone that is weak and frail can defend themselves against some one larger or a group of attackers. Unfortunately these things happen. If he couldn't get a gun he might have made a bomb.
I'm for more leinent gun laws not strictor ones. Everyone has their opinion on this subject. I see where yours is and you see where mine is. Neither of us are going to change each others mind no matter what the other says.

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#12 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:30 PM
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Yes, true, but again, if this guy had shown up with a bow and arrow, I am certain that we would not be talking about 20 or 30 fatalities.
True...and a well placed pipe bomb on a school bus would have caused well over 30 fatalities. People were killing one another long before guns were around.


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#13 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by The Onceler View Post
Do we need to be able to access high powered automatic weapons? I think there is a debate to be had. But before we start that debate, we most definitely need to enforce the laws that already exist.

My $0.02.
The entire reason that the second amendment exists is to ensure the people had the ability to defend themselves against the government. Given the current direction of our government I would say that high powered weapons (automatic weapons are already illegal) more important today than ever.


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#14 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:43 PM
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Gun control is not possible. I say make a compromise with the NRA to try to keep stuff like this from happenning. Perhaps relax rules on automatic weapons in exchange for stiffer controls over private party sales. Reduce fees for CCW in exchange for stricter background checks and/or waiting periods(These are just off the top of my head).
The hard part is trying to keep firearms out of the hands of crazies and criminals without infringing on the rights of law abiding gun owners. I'm what most on here would consider a liberal :-), but am interested in open dialogue and wonder if any of the more vocal gun rights activists here would be willing to make compromises auch as above, or possibly others.


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#15 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:44 PM
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The entire reason that the second amendment exists is to ensure the people had the ability to defend themselves against the government. Given the current direction of our government I would say that high powered weapons (automatic weapons are already illegal) more important today than ever.
If people revolted against our government they would get squashed like bugs. I am for gun freedom but I don't believe the general public needs Assault rifles. Assault rifles don't serve any real good thing except killing people
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