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post #1501 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by EUPHOR1C View Post
I found this, and this explains exactly how I feel about taking away your guns.

Daily Kos: Yes conservatives, we want to take away your guns...
We can argue all day long about how it's not your right to decide what I have a right to do and how you will feel safer if you are able to decide what is "reasonable" or unreasonable for everyone else, yada yada yada. We can even disect all that for the next 3 pages and have little sub arguments about which points in that blog we can actually agree on and then have little mini debates about those sub arguments,...until our heads cave in.
What does it really matter, if our gov is building a national police force and planning to disarm America and it literally has NOTHING to do with anything we are talking about? Something like that will affect ALL of us, regardless of our political or social ideolgies. If this continues, liberals won't be any better off than conservatives. We're ALL assholes to our gov.


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post #1502 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 09:41 PM
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The government already knows that this is not about safety.
They already know that this is not about hunting.
They already know that this won't do anything about crime or mass shootings.
There's no point in arguing that point, not with them or eachother.
They. al...ready. know.
The general public doesn't see what this is really all about, because they have us all arguing about bullshit and chasing our tails.
They bought 1.2 billion rounds of ammo and are buying 7000 select fire assault rifles for HLS, all while trying to water down the general population's arsenal.
Connect the dots. If we keep arguing about semantics and political ideologies or which new law makes the least sense, we're gonna miss the boat.
Since when has the Fed gov given a flying fuk about our kids or our safety or if we shoot each other? If they didn't have something bigger brewing, they wouldn't be on the warpath for our guns, over a few shootings. (and don't twist that around. I'm not saying I don't care about 20 dead kids. I'm saying THEY don't).
I'm just gonna repost this incessantly until it sinks in and everyone snaps out of it.
Seriuosly though, it's like waiting for the kids to stop arguing over who's sitting where and just shut the frikkin door so we can drive already.
We're already late as it is.

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post #1503 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad Dad's Tundra View Post
wow, thats scary. You feel exactly as he does? So what you are saying is that you think i can have A REASONABLE HANDGUN to protect myself and property? I cant have more than one? And, what the hell is "reasonable"? Why can i only have one handgun? Why cant i habe multiple handguns, a couple shotguns, and a rifle to protect my family? What if one of my guns malfunctions? Am I supposed to throw my hands up and say TIMEOUT! as the bad guy is charging me? Do you lock your doors AND arm your security system when you go to sleep at night? Why? Double protection? Redundancy? I'll take my chances with redundancy any day of the week, over having only one option, one tool that is the decider of whether my family lives or dies (if anyone ever breaks in).

And, Im not allowed to have any sicko guns? WTF is a sicko gun anyway...a machine gun, or an AR15? And, why is it sicko, and who decides what is sicko? And, if these "sicko" guns are the ones "designed to do nothing other than kill people", then WTF are non-sicko GUNS designed to do? As far as I'm aware, every gun is designed to kill people, but I dunno. Yeah, its people like you that we dont need in government, since you agree with everything that this idiot says...a part of the article...


"Bottom line, as a person of principle, not an etch a sketch faux varmint hunter, let me be clear, you can keep a gun to hunt, you can keep a reasonable handgun to protect your property and person, and you can keep your goofy gun collections but you MAY NOT HAVE SICKO GUNS DESINGED TO DO NOTHING OTHER THAN KILL PEOPLE!!!! *We liberals want to take THOSE GUNS away. *We really do!"
I didn't mean it in the literal sense. I don't think it was meant to be taken too seriously, and to be honest, I only read the first bullet points.

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We can argue all day long about how it's not your right to decide what I have a right to do and how you will feel safer if you are able to decide what is "reasonable" or unreasonable for everyone else, yada yada yada. We can even disect all that for the next 3 pages and have little sub arguments about which points in that blog we can actually agree on and then have little mini debates about those sub arguments,...until our heads cave in.
What does it really matter, if our gov is building a national police force and planning to disarm America and it literally has NOTHING to do with anything we are talking about? Something like that will affect ALL of us, regardless of our political or social ideolgies. If this continues, liberals won't be any better off than conservatives. We're ALL assholes to our gov.
Your absolutely right RRzxter.......... I'm done. Good luck with this thread.


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post #1504 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad Dad's Tundra View Post
I've said it before, and people disagree...after this 8 years of b.s. is over, I think there will be enough people fed up, who will either cross sides, or actually show up to the polls and do the right thing.
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post #1505 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 10:11 PM
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post #1506 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NightRodeo View Post
That must be some pretty dang good koolaid Obama sent to Canada. You are going to trust some made up numbers the liberal media threw out. I have talked with some people from some other countries and that is where I got my information, I did not get it from some made up news story from the lying liberal media. They could not even get their story straight what type of weapon/weapons were used in the Newtown shooting.
He just started his second term. He has not done much of anything to help the U.S., neither have a lot of the other politicians in congress.
I have some British friends who have told me they didn't like Bush and that a good percentage of their friends didn't like him either, Lilly Allen wrote a song about him which was quite popular in Britain


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post #1507 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by EUPHOR1C View Post
You think I don't remember what I've said? I don't have an AR, I have said I wanted one, doesn't mean I should have one. I'm not going to pay double the price for something that may or may not go away. Nothing hypocritical in that statement. You can't just take snippets of everything I've said to try and give validity to your point. It may work like that in your bubble, but not in the real world. I've said it before, it would suck if a ban was placed on the AR-15, but I'm not gonna beat my chest and pout about it if banned.



Didn't you read what I said, I didn't say he was a "great" president. It is hilarious that you feel everything was on the up and up when he took office. It's like some of you blank it out of your minds of what exactly was going on before he took office. Could Obama have done things differently, of course he could of. Would things of turned out better had he done so? Maybe yes, maybe no. I'm not asking you to "drink the kool-aid" I just can't believe that you believe some of the things you do. You can't convince me to agree with you on issues that have been proven time and time again to be false. I also never said that you don't agree with him because he is black not sure where you got that from.



I'm pretty sure we feel exactly the same about one another. I also don't think that putting restrictions on guns will lower the amount of deaths entirely. Of course there will still be people murdered or there still be accidental fatalities from guns if "assault rifles" are banned. I stated "Yes, it could given the situation" when speaking about limiting magazine capacity. This is not the case in every situation. If guns are not part of the equation there will be a lessened amount of fatalities by guns, but I understand it is not that simple. I respect your opinion on this subject and think we are both right and both wrong given whichever particular scenario of gun violence that may or may not occur.



I'll never win the argument with you on that if you do not believe the previous administration is what got us into all this mess. If we can't agree on that, than there is no reason for me to even comment about that. Your right, everything was just hunky dory in this country until Obama took office. There are several things I don't agree with what Obama has done. Guantanamo is one of them. I never said I agreed with everything he has done. I mess around saying to embrace him just to piss a lot of you off, because many of you have so much hate for the man. I could easily come up with 3 things positive he has done for this country, but it doesn't matter. You would disagree that they are great things. I never said that these ideas and proposals would have an affect on criminal activity. More drastic measure would need to be taken to do that and that'll never happen. The Sandy Hook shooter was not a criminal, he was a young man with mental issues and look how that turned out. We are talking about two different things here. I agree a criminal is not going try to get his hands on an assault rifle because it is illegal. That's what criminals do, they break laws.
I never said anything was on the up and up when obummer took office. He sure as hell has not done anything to make things any better. I know exactly what was going on before he got elected. You go around trying to tell us to let obama into our lives, we dont want him in our lives. The point is he is an idiot and people like you need to open your eyes and keep your mouth shut.

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post #1508 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 11:20 PM
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I have some British friends who have told me they didn't like Bush and that a good percentage of their friends didn't like him either, Lilly Allen wrote a song about him which was quite popular in Britain

Lily Allen - **** You with Lyrics - YouTube
I dont care. I never said Bush was better than Obummer. You are assuming that. What is this defend obama week?
At least Bush did not try to take our right to bear arms away.

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post #1509 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-28-2013, 12:06 AM
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Hold it. So, you're in some field of physical science and/or forensics and you've carefully viewed all the evidence (namely the videos of the actual collapses), and declared it a terrorist attack and all 3 buildings collapsed due to fires? What exactly are you basing your opinion on?
I think, based on the only available evidence, that the idea that 4 planes were highjacked by terrorists with box cutters, flying 2 into the WTC, causing 3 buildings to implode into a pile of dust, into their own footprint and another was flown into the pentagon, is a complete lie.
There is literally no physical evidence to support any of that. Nothing but stories.
But I would like to hear your scentific opinion as to how those buildings came down the way they did. Since, what happened that day is nothing more than a matter of opinion. Lay it on me.
No but I live in a field of reality and common sense. So what your saying is....

A government who cannot keep things like CIA agents true identity out of the news....Who now have Seal Team 6 in Hollywood movies after not even existing for decades....Who cannot keep things like Abu Ghraib quite....who cannot protect their networks/data from Anonymous....

I could keep going but what your saying is that same government above is going to keep something like 9/11 a secret for over a decade? Come on man, it would be nice to think we as a country could keep things secret but in this day in age it just aint happening. Whats that saying? 3 people can keep a secret, if 2 of them are dead...Unless of course you also think they killed all the CIA, NSA, DIA, and white house staff that were involved in the planning.

What again did 9/11 have to do with gun control anyways?
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post #1510 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-28-2013, 12:26 AM
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Re: Gun Violence and Gun Control Fervor

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No but I live in a field of reality and common sense. So what your saying is....

A government who cannot keep things like CIA agents true identity out of the news....Who now have Seal Team 6 in Hollywood movies after not even existing for decades....Who cannot keep things like Abu Ghraib quite....who cannot protect their networks/data from Anonymous....

I could keep going but what your saying is that same government above is going to keep something like 9/11 a secret for over a decade? Come on man, it would be nice to think we as a country could keep things secret but in this day in age it just aint happening. Whats that saying? 3 people can keep a secret, if 2 of them are dead...Unless of course you also think they killed all the CIA, NSA, DIA, and white house staff that were involved in the planning.

What again did 9/11 have to do with gun control anyways?
It's not hard to believe. The media reports the "official story" that is given to them by the government, and the sheeple eat it up. Anyone who raises any questions about the gaping holes or inconsistencies in the stories is labeled a conspiracy theorist and blown off as being a tin foil hat wearing nutjob. How can someone live in a world of reality and common sense and NOT question what we've been told about 9-11, Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc.

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post #1511 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-28-2013, 04:01 AM
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Hold it. So, you're in some field of physical science and/or forensics and you've carefully viewed all the evidence (namely the videos of the actual collapses), and declared it a terrorist attack and all 3 buildings collapsed due to fires? What exactly are you basing your opinion on?
I think, based on the only available evidence, that the idea that 4 planes were highjacked by terrorists with box cutters, flying 2 into the WTC, causing 3 buildings to implode into a pile of dust, into their own footprint and another was flown into the pentagon, is a complete lie.
There is literally no physical evidence to support any of that. Nothing but stories.
But I would like to hear your scentific opinion as to how those buildings came down the way they did. Since, what happened that day is nothing more than a matter of opinion. Lay it on me.
Actually if you study it, the two biggest "pieces of evidence" that are cited are pretty easily explainable and logical.

First off, yes two imploded into their own footprints, the third (10 stories) just collapsed on itself. Pretty easily explainable when you consider that they were not built like a traditional building. The reason that you see the outside pieces still sticking up in the pictures of the "after"? Because that was the frame of the building. The outside wall was the frame of the whole building. It was also somewhat supported by the elevator shafts, but mostly by the frame. So everything starts falling, and of course it's going to fall down into itself when the frame is acting like a funnel.

Secondly the "steel doesn't melt at 3000 degrees" argument. You're 100% correct, it does not. Two things though...
1. Steel does not have to melt to become weak. To prove that use your sub-3000 degree blowtorch to get steel hot, and it's easily bent and twisted.
2. Read some fire-related literature. It's been proven repeatedly that a fire can and will get hotter than what it's components burn at. That's how house fires have become so hot that water splits into its component elements, becomes fuel, and they have to use foam to put it out.

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post #1512 of 2099 (permalink) Old 01-28-2013, 07:47 AM
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See, you don't even really have to give someone an explanation or brainwash them. People will just make shit up on their own. Shit that makes absolutely no sense. They will go to any length of their imagination just to not have to believe that these things can and do happen. But I want to be clear, I don't think this phenom is because people are stupid. I think it's because they're scared. I mean, what a horrible thing to have to accept about your country and your life. If people really let that sink in and accepted that our own gov let the billionaires get away with stuff like this, they would be faced with a horrible choice: Be ok with it or do something about it.
It's better to force-feed yourself some hysterical justification, so you don't have to burden yourself with either. It's better to say that 4 crazy bad guys (like the ones from Indiana Jones) did this with little box cutters and it was all orchestrated from a cave in the middle east. Yes, that's what it was. And high rise buildings always implode into a pile of dust, into their own footprint, at freefall speed, when they catch fire. That happens every time. Because people never kill other people for money or insurance fraud and we never go to war over resources. It's always been about saving the impoverished from tyranny and spreading democracy and eradicating all the bad guys that do bad things and everyone hates America because we're better than everyone and have nice things and those ignorant poor cave people are just jealous. Maybe I should believe that so I can drum through my life and not make it my problem to care or want it different.
If you knew your neighbor could kick your ass and you heard him kicking the shit out of his wife and kids, would you just turn your TV up and convince yourself that they were just having a party?
It's called self preservation. Ignore it so you don't get hurt and then make up some crazy story in your head, so you don't have to feel guilty about not caring.
Anyway, let's move on to the "real" problems in this country.

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Gun Violence and Gun Control Fervor

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Originally Posted by RRzxter View Post
See, you don't even really have to give someone an explanation or brainwash them. People will just make shit up on their own. Shit that makes absolutely no sense. They will go to any length of their imagination just to not have to believe that these things can and do happen. But I want to be clear, I don't think this phenom is because people are stupid. I think it's because they're scared. I mean, what a horrible thing to have to accept about your country and your life. If people really let that sink in and accepted that our own gov let the billionaires get away with stuff like this, they would be faced with a horrible choice: Be ok with it or do something about it.
It's better to force-feed yourself some hysterical justification, so you don't have to burden yourself with either. It's better to say that 4 crazy bad guys (like the ones from Indiana Jones) did this with little box cutters and it was all orchestrated from a cave in the middle east. Yes, that's what it was. And high rise buildings always implode into a pile of dust, into their own footprint, at freefall speed, when they catch fire. That happens every time. Because people never kill other people for money or insurance fraud and we never go to war over resources. It's always been about saving the impoverished from tyranny and spreading democracy and eradicating all the bad guys that do bad things and everyone hates America because we're better than everyone and have nice things and those ignorant poor cave people are just jealous. Maybe I should believe that so I can drum through my life and not make it my problem to care or want it different.
If you knew your neighbor could kick your ass and you heard him kicking the shit out of his wife and kids, would you just turn your TV up and convince yourself that they were just having a party?
It's called self preservation. Ignore it so you don't get hurt and then make up some crazy story in your head, so you don't have to feel guilty about not caring.
Anyway, let's move on to the "real" problems in this country.
I get what you're saying, believe me. There are people and groups within our government and outside our government that wield an incredible amount of power. People who have never been elected and who's names we'll never know. As a staunch Libertarian, I believe that's the reason my candidates will never gain the traction needed to upset the 2 party system, even though most folks fall into a more Libertarian philosophy of governance. Any threats to a central / world bank will organize those forces to squash dissent.

Where you lose me is the insistence that almost every mass tragedy is at the planning and behest of some dark force seeking to line their pockets or poach resources, and that those of us that don't buy in are somehow a flock of obtuse sheep being unwittingly led to slaughter. I just can't get on board with that. Call me blind, an optimist, whatever. The things you attribute to conspiracy would require hundreds, sometimes thousands, of people to keep a secret. In the case of the WTC and terrorist acts similar to it, why add so many layers of complexity? Same goals could have been achieved through much simpler means. War in Iraq? Far simpler ways to get into a war with them than some elaborate scheme involving multiple stages of militarization.

In the case of Sandy Hook, of course I have questions. Do I think the media was steered in the proper direction to meet an anti gun agenda? You bet. Where we part ways is this: Those kids are dead. Those teachers are dead. That idiot Lanza shot them. We do this shit all the time. We demand immediate sound bites and 24 hour coverage, then if every piece doesn't add up with what was initially reported we assume some sort of cover up. To assume such is to assume that the firefighters, police, clergy, parents, other students and teachers that have been interviewed are all somehow complicit. People who are known in their communities. Some who don't agree with an anti gun agenda. Public servants with years of background in the community. All are on board at some level with a grand conspiracy. Sorry, just can't buy in. To do so means that we live in a near utopia, where people left to their own devices do not perpetrate these acts on their fellow citizens. A place where the tragedies of life can be blamed on some covert force outside our control. Sometimes, for me, things are what they seem.


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Ummm if that was aimed at me, please tell me how my justifications are wrong. Logically it makes sense. I'm not trying to force feed myself anything, just looking at it from a different perspective than you obviously have. I could be wrong, you could be wrong. Neither of us knows for sure, but we have our reasons for each.

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