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#16 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 03:48 PM
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#17 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lkn4trouble View Post
Hostess! Enough said!
I'm not a huge fan of unions, but if anyone actually looked at the last 10 year's of hostess, they would see the concessions the union made, along with the money pulled out of the company by the investment firms that owned it. Even its most recent ceo said that its failure was caused by bad management not the unions.

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#18 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 04:15 PM
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Right-to-work laws do not provide a general guarantee of employment to people seeking work. The laws are a government regulation of the contractual agreements between employers and labor unions that prevents them from excluding non-union workers. That's one of the reasons Toyota has stated they don't want to hire UAW members. Toyota pays better and has better benefits than the Union requires for new employees. If you work at the Toyota plant and your kid is sick, you don't have to take off work and try to get a doctor's appointment. You just take your kid to work and they have medical staff at the plant who will see your kid the same day. The UAW has tried to recruit Toyota workers. Toyota employees refuse to join the UAW.


A friend is an electrician and non-Union. Around DFW, the Electrician's Union is very small. But in Houston, it's huge. If the Union finds out there are non-Union guys working in town, they will literally run them out of town. Some state-wide companies hire electricians from out of town (contracts to work all over the state). When working in Houston, they have to take unmarked vehicles and work at night with windows covered so that nobody reports them and a bunch of Union thugs show up.

He's also been hired by a company up in Boston several times. The Union there requires 2 local Union guys for every out of state non-union guy on the job. The Union guys there milk the job like crazy. My friend got in trouble for working too hard and for not taking 15 minute breaks every hour. They were required to take breaks in a small portable building and everyone smoked in there. He'd rather keep on working and get the job done. He said they were putting up large conduit in the ceiling of a 20 foot building. It all had to go up as one piece. They took 45 minutes to get it up. They were 2 minutes away from getting it secured when the break horn sounded. So they brought all of it back down because they weren't allowed to leave it up unsecured and they weren't allowed to work during the break. There were also licensed Journeymen who didn't know what simple electrical parts were. The company owner wishes he could hire all out of state non-union electricians and pay them the same wages that the Union guys make. One out of state guy works harder than 3 Union electricians in his company.


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#19 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 04:19 PM
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Sad...Just sad.

I guess we can expect the 'Occupy' losers to be bussed into Lansing next. Booze and drugs to be supplied by the UAW, of course (unless they used it all up on their lunch breaks).

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#20 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 04:40 PM
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don't get me started on those "occupy" douchebags
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#21 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamjcb View Post
I'm not a huge fan of unions, but if anyone actually looked at the last 10 year's of hostess, they would see the concessions the union made, along with the money pulled out of the company by the investment firms that owned it. Even its most recent ceo said that its failure was caused by bad management not the unions.

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I'd say you're somewhat correct that mismanagement played its part, but there are many examples with Hostess that illustrate the asinine work rules that unions saddle their companies with. Drivers were not allowed to load their own trucks, and work requirements dictated that one union shop loaded cakes and another loaded "breads". All in the same truck. Upon delivery, many locations required a separate employee to move product from truck to shelf. Utterly foolish regardless of one's view of unions.


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#22 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamjcb View Post
I'm not a huge fan of unions, but if anyone actually looked at the last 10 year's of hostess, they would see the concessions the union made, along with the money pulled out of the company by the investment firms that owned it. Even its most recent ceo said that its failure was caused by bad management not the unions.

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Conecessions like

a loaf of bread that is going to a store can't be on the same truck as a package of twinkies that are going to the same store? A separate truck has to be sent?

The driver of the truck has to have a swamper to stock the shelf. He sits on his butt while the other guy stocks the shelf?

Those kind of concessions?

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#23 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad Dad's Tundra View Post
How does it work if you don't pay dues? I assume that you wouldn't be "in the union", and I assume your co-workers would hate you? Would you be able to work with some ethic and initiative, and make more pay than the union folks? Management aren't in unions, right? Do management give preference to non-union folks, and are they easier to please with your hard work? Just curious.

Some of the companies that I work with are unions...and when I work with those people, they are absolutely sorry. They will clock out in the middle of a clusterf*ck, because it is their break time, or quittin time, whereas we will stay until the job is finished.
exactly! not one individual (laborer) that i am aware of is non-union with the exception of upper management like you said. my guess is that you would be outcasted by the union leadership and followers would agree. upper management is a tight network and although they would most likely favor your decision, they would leave you in the dark. so it is a double edge sword.
don't get me wrong, i love my job with a passion but i am disgusted with b.s. politics, favoritism, and constant protection for people that could care less if they give a little or a lot. i think the "union" system should be revamped and restart itself what it was originally intended to be.

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#24 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OkSlim View Post
Conecessions like

a loaf of bread that is going to a store can't be on the same truck as a package of twinkies that are going to the same store? A separate truck has to be sent?

The driver of the truck has to have a swamper to stock the shelf. He sits on his butt while the other guy stocks the shelf?

Those kind of concessions?
The kind that reduced their labor cost by $110 million a year.

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#25 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 05:40 PM
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I have never been a union member and am currently in a non-union shop. The union in the job I used to work in was a govt. eployee union that technically had to represent everybody although it was illegal to force everyone to pay dues. They tended to grieve dumb shit that really shouldn't matter just to make a point, and entertained alot of stupid grievances from people who enjoy stirring the pot for no good reason.

We once had a copier delivered by a trucking company and had to pull it off the truck on a cart ourselves and take it up on the freight elevator. The Teamster behind the wheel of the truck said it is his job to drive, not to lift stuff. I looked at him as we were wheeling the thing off the truck and onto the freight elevator and said my job is not to lift heavy stuff either, but Oh well, here I am...

I can see both sides of the issue. On one side, people should have a right to decide whether they want to be a member or not. The other side of the argument is usually that the whole workforce benefits from contracts, pay, and work conditions negotiated by the Union. If some people opt out of paying dues they will basically be reaping alot of the benefits of Union negotiations for free. I am honestly not sure how you handle that. Union employees go by a Union contract and non-union employees negotiate for different terms? I would imagine that could turn into a real mess.

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#26 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamjcb View Post
I'm not a huge fan of unions, but if anyone actually looked at the last 10 year's of hostess, they would see the concessions the union made, along with the money pulled out of the company by the investment firms that owned it. Even its most recent ceo said that its failure was caused by bad management not the unions.

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Others in this thread have you, So there's really no need for me to bust your balls on your inaccurate information!

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#27 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 08:11 PM
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Lol
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#28 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lkn4trouble View Post
Others in this thread have you, So there's really no need for me to bust your balls on your inaccurate information!
So your one of those guys that think it can all be pointed to one thing, rather than a combination of multiple issues from labor, mangement, ownership and the fact that most people buy generic products that taste the same.
But if you like to think that everything is so simple and running around saying people got "owned" like a 13 year old boy on his Xbox, go for it. It shows intelligence.

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#29 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 08:30 PM
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What is xbox? Atari...FTW
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#30 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 08:37 PM
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What is xbox? Atari...FTW
A chick I used to bang.

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